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21st January 09, 11:59 AM
#1
tartan vestments?
Does anyone here know what Highland clergy would have worn in the 1700s? I know Cathlolic priests would (probably) have worn black cassocks, but is there any record of Catholic or Protestant clergy wearing a robe, alb, surplice, or any other vestment made of a particular tartan? I know there are various colorways of Clergy tartans, but was anything other than a kilt or stole made from it, way back when? I think tartan vestments would be a nice looking kit.
Kilted Reverend, Vicar, any others care to weigh in on this?
--dbh
When given a choice, most people will choose.
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21st January 09, 08:32 PM
#2
There's no mention of kilts or tartan, but it's still an interesting read.
Traditional Ceremonial and Customs Connected with the Scottish Liturgy
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...result#PPP2,M1
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22nd January 09, 04:06 PM
#3
Tartan vestments
Hello DBH,
There are tartan stoles that you can purchace. They are expensive as they are made from a tartan and you can find them on some of the websites or have one custom made.
The challenge in my case would be the fact that we wear colours of the season of the church calendar. The blue clergy tartan (my kilt) could possibly work for Advent and the green clergy tartan could be for what is known as the time of growth season as these have the colours of the season in them.
I have seen a stole on Ebay once in the blue clergy tartan.
Matt has a wonderful history of the clergy tartan on his website.
No idea what they wore in the 1700's. Never seen anything but a stole in the tartan either.
Sorry I couldn't be more help. I will look into it for you.
Robert "V"
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22nd January 09, 04:14 PM
#4
Well, of course, from 1 August 1746 to 1 July 1782 they wouldn't have worn tartan at all. So that just leaves you 64 years to find out about.
Cheers, Graham.
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22nd January 09, 04:21 PM
#5
Hello All,
As a 16 year old, my family and I were living in Krefeld, West Germany (1968/69). We were civilians, but had passes to use the Church in Bradbury Barracks (16th Signals Regiment). The vicar was Padre Smith - a Scot. He used a tartan stole every week, which changed with the season. IIRC, the altar cloth was edged in the same tartan that he was wearing that week.
Regards
Chas
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22nd January 09, 05:57 PM
#6
My guess is that kirk ministers wore a coat and britches of black cloth. Perhaps they wore a geneva gown for Divine Worship, I don't know. Episcopalian clergy would have worn cassock and surplice, with a tippet, for the Divine Office. They may have worn a stole for celebrations of the Holy Eucharist. Of course with the influence of the Oxford Movement, many Episcopalian priests would have begun to wear Mass vestments. Roman Catholic priests, who had to keep a "low profile" for political reasons after the Reformation, would have worn Mass vestments when they celebrated more than likely, and probably just ordinary clothes at other times, although in very Catholic parts of the Highlands, I am sure the priests continued to wear cassocks.
Obviously, no robes or vestments would have been made of tartan.
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22nd January 09, 06:31 PM
#7
Ultimately, the origins of clerical dress come from stylizations of street dress of around Constantine's time. This, of course, varied a bit between east and west, as it still does. Then, it also includes elements from the Byzantine Imperial Court, and a few other influences throughout history.
But, the origins of clerical dress would be significantly earlier, and from a different part of the world, than those of the tartans. In a sense, it's like asking if clergy have ever worn anything like a baseball cap (a.k.a. trucker hat) with their vestments.
Working tartans into clerical dress, basically being only done in the modern era, is a relatively new thing, and not necessarily bad, as long as it's done tastefully. Heck, I've even seen an Eastern Orthodox military chaplain with liturgical vestments made of camouflage material! I didn't think they looked that bad myself, but it's entirely missing the theological point of the clothing.
Now, given that most tartans have particular clan associations, the danger would be alienating those who don't have that particular clan membership. One could stick to the more-or-less universal tartans such as the Black Watch, but it would limit one's ability to co-ordinate with the liturgical seasons.
My personal thought would be that one could add a plaid throw, like a pipers plaid, or a "laird's plaid" (basically the same thing - just depends on whether it's being worn by a piper, or a member of the aristocracy) to the cassock.
But, I guess it depends on what style of vestments one is talking about. With the post Vatican II renovationism of liturgy in all it's aspects, one could possibly find a way to work tartans in, I'm sure. Just don't try to be too gaudy about it.
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22nd January 09, 06:47 PM
#8
I made one of my pastors a stole in the Clergy tartan.
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22nd January 09, 10:14 PM
#9
Historically, I don' t know of any clergyman wearing a tartan vestment until very recently.
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23rd January 09, 10:18 AM
#10
Tartan Vestments
Hello again,
I have received an email from an expert in Scottish history of the 1700's through a contact who is an expert in the Scottish history of the 1600's.
The answer for Protestant Scottish clergy of these times periods that would have worn NOTHING in tartan at all.
They were extreme Puritans and had no use for vestments and never wore them in any shape or form.
So, there is the answer, in a much more polite way then I received it, from a Scottish historian.
Hope this helps
Robert "V"
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