District Tartans

[arrogcow]

Ok, we've pretty much beaten the "who has a right to wear what tartan" thread to death, but it got me thinking about something else.

When I first decided that I wanted a kilt, that tartan police all told me that I had to find a tartan that I had a "right" to wear. Finally at a Celtic festival, I found my last name (Duke) in a book that said I should wear the Aberdeen district tartan (last night I tried Duke in the Tartan Authority web site and also came up with Aberdeen).

What I want to know is why? At the same festival, the guy who sell coat of arms and stuff gave "proof" that my surname comes from around Cornwall in England, nowhere near Aberdeen. So why should I have the "right" to wear a district tartan of anywhere neither I (nor any of my family as near as I can tell) have ever lived? I do have 9 yards of the tartan (my first kilt was a great kilt) that was hand woven for me (in cotton unfortunately) as a wedding present. It is a beautiful tartan (and one of these days Matt is going to get half of it to make me a box pleat), but is my only right because a book says so?

Adam

[bubba]

Forget the guys who sell those coats of arms. That's just a scam. Strictly to take advantage of the gullible with pretensions.

[macwilkin]

As Bubba stated, beware of the "bucket shop" heraldry stores that peddle "family coats-of-arms", since there is no such creature -- only individuals bear arms as an armiger. But that is another story...

Was the book called "Tartan for Me!"?

Cheers,

Todd

[Rob]

At the same festival, the guy who sell coat of arms and stuff gave "proof" that my surname comes from around Cornwall in England, nowhere near Aberdeen. So why should I have the "right" to wear a district tartan of anywhere neither I (nor any of my family as near as I can tell) have ever lived?

Adam

Adam,

If you want to wear a tartan that you have some entitlement to, and your surname can be traced back to Cornwall, there is a very nice Cornish Hunting Tartan that you could wear without worrying about entitlement.

http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tart...?tartan_id=633

Of course there is nothing to stop you wearing almost any other tartan if you like it.

Rob

[arrogcow]

I know that the heraldry guys are scans, that's why I said "proof". As for the book, I have no idea, but again it was confirmed yesterday on the Tartan's authority website, so there must me a reason why I can wear Aberdeen, at least according to the tartan police.

The Cornish Hunting is nice, but I can't really prove a connection there either. Most of my family actually seems to be Welsh.

Adam

[macwilkin]

I know Smith & Teall's "Tartan for Me!" lists various Scottish, Irish, Scots-Irish, etc. surnames and appropriate tartans, and I believe they determine which tartans by areas where large numbers of people with that particular surname live -- Matt, you want to help me on this?

However, if you know your ancestry to be Welsh, then a Welsh tartan, like the Welsh National, might be more meaningful, but certainly not "required" or your only choice.

T.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Todd,

For the record, "Tartan For Me!" was written solely by Phil Smith. Gordon Teall was not involved. Teall and Smith co-authored the book called District Tartans , which is probably what you are thinking about.

Anyway, if the people who looked up your name recommended the Aberdeen tartan, they were probably using "Tartan For Me!" because that's about the only widely available reference that also includes district tartans.

A few points. First, this book is not an official sept name list of any sort. It is simply a list of recommended tartans for various names. Even in the cases of a clan tartan being recommended, it does not necessarily mean you are part of that clan -- the tartan could be recommended for other reasons, other types of historic connections.

When district tartans are recommended, it becomes a bit trickier, and I always tell people to do more research to see why that tartan was recommended. It could be for a number of reasons. It could be that the family once held signifigant landholdings in that area. It could be that the earliest instance of that name on record in Scotland was from that area. It could be that this is where the largest numbers of families with that name have lived, or currently lived. There could be any number of reasons.

When I get a district tartan listed in "Tartan For Me!" one of the first things I do is to go to Black's The Surnames of Scotland to see what I can find out about the name there. Sometimes the information I find gives me cause to recommend another district tartan.

In the case of the name Duke, the earliest record of the name found in Scotland (as listed in Black's) is a David Duce de Montrose, witness in Brechin, in 1490. No other really signifigant information is given that might lead one to beleive the name was more common in one area than another.

Brechin is also on the east coast, a bit farther south than Aberdeen, but perhaps Aberdeen was the closest large area with its own tartan, so it was recommended. Then again, this David Duce is said to be of Montrose, not Brechin, and is merely recorded as having been a witness in Brechin. So if I were to recommend a district tartan based on this earliest instance of the name on record, I would recommend the Montrose district tartan.

But choosing which tartan to wear can be a tricky thing. It's not nearly as straightforward as selecting a clan tartan.

Do you want to wear a tartan for the place your ancestors first owned land? Or the place that the lived in Scotland immediately before migrating? Or the place where you currently live? Or the place you were born but no longer live in? Or a place that you take your annual vacation to and just fell in love with? Or a place that you feel is historically signifigant and wish to honor? There are any number of reasons to wear a district tartan, and you needn't limit yourself to just one!

My recommendation is to research a bit more into your particular family and see what else you don't come up with.

Aye,
Matt

[arrogcow]

I'm not fishing for a tartan I can wear. I am "entitled" to wear the Army tartan, California (by birth) and Kentucky (due to the fact that I have lived most of my life here). While I would like a tartan that I am connected to, I am of the camp that as long as you are respecting it, wear it (though if the chief of Clan Montgomery ever asks, I'll swear fealty).

On the other thread we've already discusses what you are "entitled" to wear as a tartan. I would wear Thompson (my mom), but many of the tartan police don't approve of a matrilinial descent, and based on geanealogical research, we aren't related to Clan Thompson anyway (at least not for at least 350 years).

I was mostly just cuerious as to how my surname got linked to Aberdeen. Seems to me that someone just made a list of all Brittish sounding names (cause Tollus, my only verifiably Scottish ancestor, isn't listed anywhere and they were in Fife since at least 150 AD - at least according to some geanealogists I have seen - you'd think they would be), and started randomly giving them a district tartan to wear.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

Adam