Six or Seven Celtic nations?

[MacWage]

I remember someone saying there were 6 Celtic nations, but also hearing there were 7.

So who many and which ones are included?

-Scotland
-Ireland
-Wales
-Brittany

Rest?

France? Gael-Celts
Spain? Iberian-Celts

[Ruanaidh]

I've always heard spoke of the "Seven Nations":
- Ireland
- Scotland
- Wales
- Cornwall
- Isle of Man
- Brittany (France)
- Galicia (Spain)
Gaelic (in either of its two branches) is spoken in six of the nations. Unfortunately Galicia no longer has the old tongue. The music in all seven nations is remarkably similar, sharing many instruments and musical forms.

I remember someone saying there were 6 Celtic nations, but also hearing there were 7.

So who many and which ones are included?

-Scotland
-Ireland
-Wales
-Brittany

Rest?

France? Gael-Celts
Spain? Iberian-Celts

[MacWage]

Thanks,

So the list includes sub-sections of modern nations, even some with less "independance" than others. One part of Spain and one of France. I've heard various lists of 4 or 5 and reference to 6 and 7, but have not really researched it or tried to make a single list.

As an American, I get odd ideas of "nation," "state," and "country." Technically, all the same, but we use "state" for "territories" and regional subgroupings within our "nation." A marked distinction is made between state and nation, which I am not aware is made ANYWHERE ELSE. I wasn't sure if Brittany, Cornwall, and Galicia were under "nation," as they are notably parts of England, France, and Spain in much more sense than Ireland, Man, Wales, or Scotland. Interestingly, only the Irish are really an independant nation, and that only includes the larger part of the isle.


THANKS,

[The Wizard of BC]

Please remember that the term "nation" as it is used in sthe study of history refers to a group of people that share a common language family. It has nothing to do with the nations as we know them today or as it is used politically.

[MacWage]

Please remember that the term "nation" as it is used in sthe study of history refers to a group of people that share a common language family. It has nothing to do with the nations as we know them today or as it is used politically.

True, very true.

[slohairt]

According to the Celtic League, and various other academic institutions, there are six Celtic nations that have survived into the modern era. They base this criteria on a Celtic language still being spoken in the area as well as its attendant culture.

These three nations form the Goidelic branch and their languages (Gaeilge, Gàidhlig, and Gailck, respectively) are mutually intelligible:

Ireland (Éire)
Scotland (Alba)
Isle of Man (Mannin)

These three nations form the Brythonic branch and their languages (Cymraeg, Kernewek, and Breizhonek) are mutually intelligible:

Wales (Cymru)
Cornwall (Kernow)
Brittany (Breizh)

These two groups while from the same original proto-Celtic language are not mutually intelligible (i.e. Welsh is not understood by an Irish speaker in the same way that German is not understood by an English speaker)

Galicia is not a Celtic nation. True, Celtic people inhabitated the area at one time, but they intermingled with later populations and their language (Galego) and attendant culture today is based on the Romance family of languages. No Celtic language has been spoken in the area since the 10th Century. As for loan words, there are actually more loan words of Celtic origin in English and French.
Galician separatist movements in the past have used the "Celtic" card to reinforce their differences from the dominant Castillian Spanish culture of Spain.
Incidentally, there was also a place in modern-day Turkey called Galicia which was inhabited by Celts.

France is not a Celtic nation either by this standard. They lost their Celtic culture after the Roman conquest, became thoroughly Romanised and were later conquered by Germanic peoples like the Franks.

And my parents said my degree was a waste!

Is mise le meas,

Seán Liosliath Ó hAirt

[Riverkilt]

No clue who's right.

The Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society http://www.nachs.info/regions.htm

Shows the flags of eight on their webpage

Asturias
Brittany
Cornwall
Galacia
Ireland
Isle of Man
Scotland
Wales

And, there's a handy little map and info on each region.

Ron

[PEB]

France is become one country by her kings' willing (act of Villers-Cotteret by King Francis Ist in 1537 for instance). THe French Revolution and Empire (1789-1815) made the country one Nation under the same and equal Law. There is no Britannic nation. Britanny is but an essential part of the French Nation under the Republic.

The Six-Nations Rugby championship come from French-British History. It was formerly the Five-Nations. The four British Nation (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland) and France. But remember Edward IIIrd's claim to be King of France during the XIVth century! Remember the Chapter hall of Westminster abbey! Remember the Fleurs-de-Lys close from the Lion guardant in the old Royal Standard. In this way, France is a British nation too!

[Galician]

Wow, I don't know whether or not I should be glad to have missed this thread when it was hotter.

I thank TKW for pointing out that traditional Galician culture includes many elements common in the wider Celtic culture. While the language (yes, there is a Galician language) might be more Romance-based than those of the British Isles, it still carries some of the Celtic roots. This is more true of the arts of the region, both visual and musical, such as bagpipes. Considering how few residents of Ireland speak anything other than English, though, I do find the linguistic argument bemusing.

I found it VERY interesting to have learned (through this site) of some ancient Irish texts which tell of how the first Irish went to that island from Galicia.

[Riverkilt]

Okay, help me here.

My own Northern Arizona Celtic Heritage Society lists EIGHT nations.

Which one(s) of these don't belong on the shorter lists?

Asturias

Brittany

Cornwall

Ireland

Galacia

Isle of Man

Scotland

Wales

And who want's to tell the folks that don't "qualify" that they dont?

Ron