Is Nicoll Bros. under new management?

[gilmore]

I recently bought a pair of bar and buckle patent leather ghillie brogues in yet another eBay auction selling not what was purported. They arrived today and are very disappointing. The finishing is poorly done with frayed leather and loose threads, the straps are permanently malformed from being buckled, both sets of buckles are grimy and need cleaning, and the leather lining on the inner soles is already coming loose. But the worst is that they are at least a size smaller than they are labelled, both on the box and inside the shoe itself, and therefore unwearable. However, on the box they are labelled Nicoll Brothers "Kilties." The inner sole lining is also labelled "Kilties" with Gaelic under it and a standing piper logo above it.

I have read here that Nicoll Brothers make fairly good sporrans, so was surprised that these brogues of such poor quality would be sold under their name. I googled for them and found that "nicoll-brothers.com expired on 11/19/2006 and is pending renewal or deletion."

Is Nicoll Brothers no more? Is this another case of a well-known name being bought by unscrupulous people who use it to sell shoddy merchandise?

[Nanook]

I have read here that Nicoll Brothers make fairly good sporrans,

They MADE the best commercial (in contrast to bespoke artisan) sporrans but no longer.

so was surprised that these brogues of such poor quality would be sold under their name.

The shoes and other bits were from a different bit. Piob Mhor is still around.
I don't know the shoes but one needs keep in mind that they are low priced shoes. I unfortunately don't know ANYONE making good quality ghillie brogues. The market is set on cheap shoes. Can't expect a good shoe for 45 GBP (not even 100). Good (but not excellent or even "really good") English shoes start at around 200 GBP--- and face it even good American made shoes (which where always a better bargain) are $300 USD and well beyond (Allen-Edmonds, Alden).
The sporrans had prices starting at around 100 GBP. What could one expect in a shoe for under 50 GBP?

I googled for them and found that "nicoll-brothers.com expired on 11/19/2006 and is pending renewal or deletion."

After 170 years they folded last Autumn. Margaret Morrison Ltd took over a bit of the sporran business but I don't know what we'll see.

Is Nicoll Brothers no more? Is this another case of a well-known name being bought by unscrupulous people who use it to sell shoddy merchandise?

Margaret Morrison makes good sporrans.

Janet Eagleton is another maker in that corner and her stuff is really good--- at least as good as Nicoll Brothers even if I tend to have preferred the Bankfoot sporrans.

[Bob C]

If they have buckles, they're not ghillie brogues, but buckle brogues.

As for the size, did you account for the difference between US and UK sizing?

Sorry about the quality. Sounds like you got hosed.

[Nanook]

As for the size, did you account for the difference between US and UK sizing?

That would make them larger. UK to US is around 1/2 to a full size difference and the widths are around 1 letter off.
US to UK
AA=A, A=B, B=C, C=D, D=E, E=F, EE=G, EEE=H.
Its, of course, confusing since different makes use different lasts and sometimes a B on one last is like a C or an A on other. A 10 can be a 10 1/2 or even a 9 1/2 in the same system from another maker (or even the same company using other materials or on another last).

[gilmore]

Yes, of course I accounted for the difference in UK and US measurements, by one size. I wear a US 10 1/2 so ordered a UK size 9 1/2, but they are at least one size too small. As Nanook says, sizes seem to be inconsistent and all over the place these days, for both clothes and shoes.

[RockyR]

There are several shoes of "decent quality" out there, but theyre not cheap. Ghillies that WE sell are $120, although we can get higher quality ones at $160 and "regimental" ones (not sure what that means... it's in our order form) would retail at about $300.

Quality sporran makers... Margaret Morrison, Broadsword (if you can buy from a shop and NOT directly from them... we get the incorrect merchandise), L & M Highland, Gaelic Themes and Buzz Kidder (for less expensive quality ones).

[Nanook]

There are several shoes of "decent quality" out there, but theyre not cheap. Ghillies that WE sell are $120, although we can get

I know of NO "decent quality" shoes (save maybe running shoes and they are almost all made in China) for $120 USD.

higher quality ones at $160 and "regimental" ones (not sure what that means... it's in our order form) would retail at about $300.

Who makes these "regimental" shoes? Are they available in widths, properly welted and use good quality (not the correct grain stuff) leather?

[RockyR]

Gaelic Themes (based in Scotland) does the "regimental" shoe. Not sure about the quality of the Regimental series as I've never ordered one.

I DID just find a place that does wider sized brogues (based in Canada). Price on them will be $135 and they'll take 4 to 8 weeks as they only do them as custom, not standard. We can get them in leather or rubber sole.

[Nanook]

Gaelic Themes (based in Scotland) does the "regimental" shoe. Not sure about the quality of the Regimental series as I've never ordered one.

Gaelic Themes is a mainstream supplier and their goods are midstream among Highland outfitters in quality. These shoes may indeed be "the best" among the ghillie brogues but that just reinforces my observation that the market contains no good quality shoes. To my knowledge Army issue shoes to the Highland Regiments are not of the ghille brogue style and most were made in Northhampton (or at least, these days, supplied by companies such as Sanders based in Northampton: http://www.pediwear.co.uk/stock.php?range_ID=3). To my knowledge also proper "regimental" shoes would be more a brogue with silver buckles, balmoral brogue (such as the Sanders Braemar) or even a plain black derby. Better shoes in these styles were, I think, purchased at own expense from the typical suspects John Lobb, George Cleverley, Edward Green or Crockett and Jones. Alden and Allen-Edmonds make similar styles of shoes at more attractive price points (between $300 and $600 USD).

I DID just find a place that does wider sized brogues (based in Canada). Price on them will be $135 and they'll take 4 to 8 weeks as they only do them as custom, not standard. We can get them in leather or rubber sole.

Custom, good and $135 seem almost too good to be true even for shoes via Asian jobbers--- better running shoes (almost all made in China) are pushing into that price league. Are these made on lasts to width (I'd need a narrow and long) and welted? How is the cut and the quality of workmanship and leathers?

[RockyR]

I'll be honest (not like I'm normally NOT honest)... I'm probably nowhere near as educated as you when it comes to shoes... Brogues or otherwise. I try a pair on and if they fit, GREAT! If they fall apart in a week, I won't buy them again and I'll complain to the people I bought them from and get my money back.

So far, no one has complained about ANY of the brogues we've sold. Honestly, there are VERY FEW customers of ours who will be looking for a $300 + shoe and we really don't see a need to carry them until requested. Some people only buy the best. For the rest of us, the $120 brogues will suffice. I'm not looking to make Ghillie Brogues the main thrust of our business, so the $120 pair will be fine for us.

As a last point of clarification, the shoes ARE made in the UK (and the Candian shoe company makes theirs in Canada).