Other Stewarts

[kiltedsawyer]

I have read in this forum and other vendor sites that the Black Watch and Royal Stewart tartens are "universal." Further, I fully understand the concept that if you like it........wear it. My question is regarding the "other" Stewart tartens. I am somewhat the traditionalist, and hence strive to abide by the customs of those who have gone before, and so my question is, are the other Stewart tartens considered universal? I am partial to the Black Stewart, but am hesitating, based on your feed back.
Respectfully,
David

[Peter C.]

Black Watch and Hunting Stewart are free or universal tartans. Royal Stewart was not but has been allowed to slip into the free zone. Black Stewart and Green Stewart are fashion tartans and as such can be worn by anyone.

Of course any tartan can be worn by anyone, so if there is a tartan you like, wear it with pride and enjoy.

Peter

[macwilkin]

Black Watch and Hunting Stewart are free or universal tartans. Royal Stewart was not but has been allowed to slip into the free zone. Black Stewart and Green Stewart are fashion tartans and as such can be worn by anyone.

Of course any tartan can be worn by anyone, so if there is a tartan you like, wear it with pride and enjoy.

Peter

It should be noted, however, that the designation "universal" when referring to the Government Sett (Black Watch), really refers to its use by the Scottish regiments. The Government Sett has become a de facto free tartan much in the same way as the Royal Stewart has.

And yes, the Government Sett is also used by several clans as well.

Regards,

Todd

[M. A. C. Newsome]

My column in The Scottish Banner that will come out in July actually deals with this very question!

As has been said here, the Hunting Stewart tartan has always been considered an "open" tartan for any to wear.

There are different opinions on the Royal Stewart. Some regard this tartan as only appropriate for the Royal Family to wear. Others regard it as a general use tartan. Regardless of its original use, in practice it is now a general tartan. Not only can you readily buy or rent kilts and other Highland dress items in this tartan, you can find it in bathrobes, pajamas, flannel shirts, wrapping paper, and just about anything else. Not exactly "restricted" these days!

There are a lot of Stewart tartans that are based on the Royal Stewart. Dress Stewart is just the Royal Stewart with a white base. Black Stewart is the same with a black base. There are others. In my opinion, if the Royal Stewart is to be regarded as a general tartan, these variations of it also should.

Of course you will find these tartans heavily in use among those of Stewart descent, because of the name affiliation. But if a Stewart were wishing to wear a tartan that represented the Stewart clan and was not generally used as a universal tartan, I'd reccomend the Old Stewart tartan for a primary clan tartan, or one of the "branch" tartans (Stewart of Appin, Stuart of Bute, etc) if one is affiliated with a branch of the clan.

Matt

[Peter C.]

We talk about clan tartans, free tartans and fashion tartans, and it's really interesting as a history lesson, and I love it, but we can all wear any tartan. Which, as far as the kilt as an article of clothing is concerned, makes all tartans just like free tartans or fashion tartans.

Of course most tartans have always been available for anyone to wear, including Black Watch. There have never been laws in the UK restricting the wearing of parts of military uniforms by civilians for work, play or anything else and that applies to kilts as much as kahki trousers.

Royal Stewart, on the other hand, was, or is, a royal tartan and was worn with permission of the monarch. An example of this was the Royal Scots Regiment. The regiment wore Hunting Stewart but the pipe band were given permission to wear Royal Stewart. It has become a free tartan purely by people ignoring tradition.

Peter

[macwilkin]

We talk about clan tartans, free tartans and fashion tartans, and it's really interesting as a history lesson, and I love it, but we can all wear any tartan. Which, as far as the kilt as an article of clothing is concerned, makes all tartans just like free tartans or fashion tartans.

Of course most tartans have always been available for anyone to wear, including Black Watch. There have never been laws in the UK restricting the wearing of parts of military uniforms by civilians for work, play or anything else and that applies to kilts as much as kahki trousers.

Royal Stewart, on the other hand, was, or is, a royal tartan and was worn with permission of the monarch. An example of this was the Royal Scots Regiment. The regiment wore Hunting Stewart but the pipe band were given permission to wear Royal Stewart. It has become a free tartan purely by people ignoring tradition.

Peter

Not only "Pontious Pilate's Bodyguard", but the Black Watch, Royal Scots, R.S.D.G. and the K.O.S.B. were also given permission to wear the Royal Stewart tartan, Peter. There have been several Commonwealth regiments as well:

http://www.regiments.org/tradition/tartans/stuartro.htm

And my point was, btw, that the Black Watch was a "universal" tartan first as a regimental tartan (the Royal Scots wore it before adopting the Hunting Stewart tartan, for example) before it became a "free tartan". I was not implying that it was a restricted tartan.

Todd

[Peter C.]

Not only "Pontious Pilate's Bodyguard", but the Black Watch, Royal Scots, R.S.D.G. and the K.O.S.B. were also given permission to wear the Royal Stewart tartan, Peter. There have been several Commonwealth regiments as well:

http://www.regiments.org/tradition/tartans/stuartro.htm

And my point was, btw, that the Black Watch was a "universal" tartan first as a regimental tartan (the Royal Scots wore it before adopting the Hunting Stewart tartan, for example) before it became a "free tartan". I was not implying that it was a restricted tartan.

Todd

Sorry Todd, but I wasn't getting at you. I only mentioned the Royal Scots as an example of the Monarch giving permission to wear the Royal Stewart tartan. I only chose them as, along with the Black Watch, they are a regiment I have served alongside.

However you listing all those regiments that have been given permission does help make my point. I didn't know about Pontious Pilate's Bodyguard

But it is a fact that any clothing worn by the British Military can be worn with impunity by civilians and Royal Stewart tartan getting all that exposure probably helped push it into the "free zone".

Peter

[gilmore]

We talk about clan tartans, free tartans and fashion tartans, and it's really interesting as a history lesson, and I love it, but we can all wear any tartan.

"Can" and "should" are two different things.

[Peter C.]

"Can" and "should" are two different things.

Yes Gilmore, I agree, and whether you wear any tartan or not is a personal choice. We must respect each others personal choices.

I seem to keep quoting Phil from Scotland who wrote in another thread that he finds it interesting that it is mainly non-Scottish members who have strong views on this matter.

Peter

[MacWage]

It should be noted, however, that the designation "universal" when referring to the Government Sett (Black Watch), really refers to its use by the Scottish regiments. The Government Sett has become a de facto free tartan much in the same way as the Royal Stewart has.

And yes, the Government Sett is also used by several clans as well.

Regards,

Todd

That terminology looks REAL familiar!