Pleat Depth Dynamics

**xman** · 16th May 10, 06:08 PM

How does say a 2" pleat depth move/operate/fan differently than for example a 4" pleat depth? Why would one be preferred over another? If it's just the amount of material in the pleats that gives good 'swish' then wouldn't a shallow pleat with a small reveal work the same as a deep pleat with a wide reveal?

X

**ForresterModern** · 16th May 10, 06:24 PM

I don't know what the experts will say, but I think there are several factors involved in the "swish" factor, pleat depth being only one of them. Pleat depth combined with pleat show yielding the number of pleats over a specific kilt edge distance (pleats per foot and yards of fabric per foot of the pleated section), combined with the weight of the fabric, and the over all length of the pleated portion of the kilt below the fell. The combination of the overall number and depth of pleats with the weight of fabric and length of the pleats IMHO is what gives it is overall movement, which is pretty much directly related to how much pleated yardage their is and how heavy and long that part of the kilt is. Probably the reason the military kilts have reportedly been going up in numbers of yards involved in their build ups over the last 150 years of so from 4-5 yards to 6 yards to 7-8 yards---the improved "look" in motion during parade in particular, since it is pretty obvious that the kilt has become less of a piece of attire fit for modern warfare than it may have been percieved to be a couple hundred years ago.

Kilt makers and historians please chime in.

jeff

**Chas** · 18th May 10, 02:58 AM

I don't quite understand the physics, but isn't this something to do with the 'pendulum effect'. The length of the moment arm (the distance from the bottom of the fell to the selvedge) and the weight combine through somehow to produce the swish. As far as I understand, the longer kilt and a kilt with a hem produce more swish.

Regards

Chas

**xman** · 18th May 10, 11:28 PM

Thanks for the replies so far.

The reason I ask is because I am considering a 16oz. 9" sett which gives me two major options (if my math works).

1. 21ish 7/8" wide, over 4" deep pleats for an 8 yard kilt
2. 31ish 5/8" wide, almost 2" deep alternating pleats for a 6 yard kilt

Lower yardage kilts are touted for being more comfortable, but shallow pleats are indicative of casual kilts. Wide pleat reveal and fewer pleats are also hallmarks of the casual which the second kilt wouldn't have, but I'm still concerned that it might not look or act like a dress kilt since that's what I need it to be.

Thoughts?

**davidlpope** · 26th July 10, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by xman

The reason I ask is because I am considering a 16oz. 9" sett which gives me two major options (if my math works).

1. 21ish 7/8" wide, over 4" deep pleats for an 8 yard kilt
2. 31ish 5/8" wide, almost 2" deep alternating pleats for a 6 yard kilt

The number of pleats is usually determined by counting the number of full setts contained in the fabric that will become the pleats (i.e. take the total length of your kilt fabric, subtract the amount used for the aprons, deep pleats underneath the apron, etc. leaves the remainder of the fabric to be pleated in the back).

I'm not sure how there is really more than one answer for each individual combination of 1) sett size and 2) yardage of tartan used in the kilt, unless one goes the route of "creative" pleating which is often used on "casual" 4-yd kilts. In this case there isn't an attempt to pleat either to the same line or to reproduce the true sett. Instead there is an attempt to create an alternate, yet pleasing, design on the back of the kilt.

I guess the other alternative is "cheating the pleats", as Barb describes in her recent thread, although this requires a tartan that has the same element repeated multiple times in one sett (i.e. the black line between the broader two green bands in Black Watch, etc.) What tartan are you using?

David

**Barb T** · 26th July 10, 06:38 AM

Length of fell is one of the critical factors. If it's too short for the length of the kilt, the pleats aren't "controlled", and the kilt tends to be flippy instead of swingy. If the fell is too long for the length of the kilt, the pleats don't swing.

Weight is also a factor. More fabric swings better than less fabric.

What about pleat depth? I agree that 2" deep pleats just don't swing like deeper ones do, but I'd say that the increase in swing with increasing pleat depth is a case of diminishing returns. On the small end, there's no swing, of course. No one would want half inch pleats. But I wouldn't say that there's much difference in swing between, say, 3-3.5" deep pleats and 5" deep pleats. In other words, with a "normal" sett typical of the tartan you'd make a man's kilt from (6-9" setts), the swing is governed far less by pleat depth, in my estimation, than by the amount of tartan and the depth of the fell. I'd be interested to hear what all y'all who make kilts think of this analysis.

As far as the choices you've listed, alternating pleats wouldn't be a formal traditional choice, so if you need your kilt to look like a trad, knife-pleated kilt, you wouldn't alternate the pleats. This wouldn't not be true for a casual kilt or a traditional box pleated kilt.

5/8" wide pleats are really small for a man's kilt, in my estimation.

And, if you have 8 yards of tartan for an average-size man, and the sett size is 9", I'd be flabbergasted if you got more than 27 pleats out of the tartan. 9" is a pretty big sett size. 25 pleats would be more likely. If the person is a man of substance and you only have 8 yards, you'd likely only have 21-23 pleats.

**xman** · 31st July 10, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by davidlpope

What tartan are you using?

MacDonald of Clanranald.

I'd be treating the sett as if 4.5" and pleating to alternating stripes rather than the full 9", much like is done with Black Watch.

**Hothir Ethelnor** · 19th May 10, 05:44 AM

I personally prefer kilts with pleats that are between 3/4 and 1" wide. I would lean towards the deeper wider pleats. (not to mention it's a serious difference in the amount of labour required between the two.)

My favorite sett size is around 9" and so I like pleats that are near 4" deep. I think they swing nicely. (of course I'm pretty skinny so I can have a bunch of 4" deep pleats that are barely 3/4" wide at the hips.)

**xman** · 25th July 10, 01:21 PM

I have to bump this thread again. In a recent article Barb repeated something in her book which someone might say. "I want lots of deep pleats". I am seriously considering the shallow, alternating pleats again for their attractive appearance but don't want to compromise the swish too much.

Can anyone else weigh in on this idea?

**CDNSushi** · 25th July 10, 06:09 PM

I'm not sure you'd find THAT much of a difference in the swish, tbh. I find that even if a lower-yardage kilt of sufficient weight, whose pleats are nicely pressed, swishes very well. If it's for every-day usage (as opposed to Highland dancing or something similar), you'd probably be happy with either choice.

Now, 16 oz. is already heavy, so 8 yards of it will give you a beast of a kilt... For me, here in hot, humid Japan (in the summer) and not-that-cold (in the winter), I'd probably reach for the 6-yarder.

As it is, I rarely wear my wool kilt in the summer except for special occasions. This week the temp has been well in the mid-30s (Celsius), so I've been wearing my UK a lot. In this weather I might also wear my 4-yard, light, acrylic Hunting Stewart.

SO anyway, if it were ME, I would be choosing option #2, given the choice.