what is going on here?

**bodysuittattoo** · 12th March 11, 01:55 PM

black watch extremely heavy fabric

ok, so why do the pleats change direction. going in what i thought was the wrong direction. this appears original from time of kiltmaking.

look carefully. the lining is stiched to the pleats and then folded over to cover the hem. like it was done originally when made, not an afterthought

these are the things removed that were used as straps and buckles

**bodysuittattoo** · 13th March 11, 12:06 AM

ok , it's hard to read in my original post.
what i have here is an extremely heavy fabric, way way heavier than 16oz, black watch ?, close to 8 yrd kilt.
it has been repaired a few times, and not too professionally , more like the owner was trying to fix things that were broken/worn out using things at hand. see last pic of straps and such i already removed from kilt.
what has got me a bit buffaloed is that the pleats seem to have been reversed AFTER the kilt was made and before the liner put in. see the pic where the tape is stuck into the pleats, 1/4" in one direction right at the bottom of the fell and 2 3/4 in the other just below where the liner is sewn to the inside pleats. but the pleats now purposefully reversed are also going in the wrong direction.. ???
i haven't started to remove the liner yet to see what is happening under there, and whether the top of the pleats have been cut away.
there doesn't seem to be any under pleats, and perhaps the pleated section seems to be proportionally small compared to the aprons.
sooo... i'm thinking this kilt was altered to fit a larger waist size, possibly by taking the under pleats and adding them to the aprons. perhaps the liner was also altered at this time.. if so then this was done by a far more professional tailor than the last few repairs.
why the pleats got reversed is a mystery so far. i see that the pleats supposedly set to stripe, but the stripe is on what is now the INSIDE of the kilt. i haven't looked carefully to see if some possible mistake was made that required the kilt to be finished inside out. i suspect some explanation may be found under the liner.
another interesting thing of notice is that the inner apron does not seem to ever have had a strap, nor are there strap 'button holes' in the fell portion of the kilt.
ideas, conjectures and suggestions will be appreciated

**Downunder Kilt** · 13th March 11, 12:21 AM

Sorry but can't help you with the kilt but I am sure that many of the kiltmakers on here will get back to you with their thoughts. (perhaps after the weekend)

It does appear to be a very old kilt and I think those straps may have been original (used as part of the mechanism to keep the kilt on).

It may also help to know the origin of the kilt, if you know it.

Good luck with the mystery

**English Bloke** · 13th March 11, 02:54 AM

Could it be a Military Box Pleat?

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 13th March 11, 05:06 AM

What you have here is an older Black Watch regimental kilt. Regimental kilt cloth today is typically an 18oz weight, but in the past it was often heavier, so you may have your hands on some 22oz cloth.

The pleating is referred to as "piped" or "barrell" pleats, and is essentially the same concept as a box pleat, but a slightly different style typical of the Black Watch.

**bodysuittattoo** · 17th March 11, 11:34 AM

What you have here is an older Black Watch regimental kilt. Regimental kilt cloth today is typically an 18oz weight, but in the past it was often heavier, so you may have your hands on some 22oz cloth.

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

The pleating is referred to as "piped" or "barrell" pleats, and is essentially the same concept as a box pleat, but a slightly different style typical of the Black Watch.

so .. does the military box pleat stay pleated in a 'roll ' all the way to the hem, or in the case of a "piped/barrel" pleat turn into a knife like pleat just under the fell?..... because i'm gonna tell you right now that trying to press a box/roll to the hem in this fabric is going to be near impossible, and i'm not so sure about it's staying power, AND i don't really see any indication of any pleat lines other than what is here, except on the very first pleat, which appears to be a box to the hem

ps: just what constitutes 'older' ?... and yes, this seems like mega cloth.. it feels twice as thick and stiff as 16oz !!

**Tartan Tess** · 13th March 11, 05:23 AM

Very cool score. I love old military kilts, they each tell a story if you know how to read them.
An excellent book to find out more and understand your kilt is a book by Bob Martin called "All about your kilt" I think Matt sells it through the Scottish Tartan museum.