Sett Size

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Here's a pic from Tuefel's recent wedding thread.


The groom and his brother are both wearing ancient MacDonald of the Isles Hunting. But notice the difference in the sett size.

I, personally, think the larger sett size looks better. But this is obviously a personal preference.

Which brings me to the reason for this post. We spend a lot of time when we select a tartan for our kilt debating on whether we want the modern, ancient, muted, weathered color schemes, etc. But do any of us give much thought as to what sett size we would prefer? When we are shopping around, comparing samples from different mills, does the size of the sett affect our decision?

In a few older pattern books I have seen it would sometimes happen that a mill would produce the same tartan in two, sometimes three different sett sizes. If mills were to do this today, would you, as a consumer, appreciate having the option?

I suppose I am just curious as to how much this is even a factor people consider when purchasing their kilt (or tartan cloth).

[KWD]

Matt, This is a GREAT topic!

for me being relatively new to Kilts (only the past 8 years and only having a Tartan Kilt for the past couple years or so) I was not aware of differing Set sizes. Recently, Joshua received his Davidson Modern Kilt from Rockey which is a beautiful Tartan


And I have my Davidson Modern as well


As you can see both very different set sizes, but both very attractive Tartans, I think I like the idea of being able to choose your set size, In my opinion it gives you even more opportunity to stand out in a crowd.

I happen to love my set with is at least twice the size of Joshua's however I would still LOVE to have a Kilt in a smaller set like Joshua's as well, being a smaller set I think there is more splash of color and contrast, then mine..

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Kyle,

Once again, your photos prove to me that I do prefer larger sett sizes in general (at least for kilting purposes). I think your kilt looks very handsome!

But I do recognize that there would be plenty of instances where a smaller sett size would be more beneficial. And also that my personal preference for larger setts in a kilt is just that -- my personal preference.

Does anyone prefer a smaller sett size in a kilt?

[KD Burke]

Matt,

I share your preference for larger setts. To my eye a smaller sett appears "busy" and carries unfortunate connotations of used car salesmen wearing white shoes.

I'm told that small setts frequently present pleating challenges.

[KWD]

Matt, Another advantage to a small set that I can see would be Pleating, I will have to get a Pleat shot of my Kilt for you, I really like the look of Lots of pleats, my pleats are very deep due to the Set size (so i am told) were having a smaller set would allow for more shallower pleats in turn causing more pleats!

I think anyway I am no expert and I think I would sew my finger to my kilt if i tried to make one...

[CDNSushi]

Wow, you learn something new every day. Now at the risk of exposing my ignorance, could someone explain HOW it's possible that a tartan might have more than one sett size? I was under the impression that sett size was determined by thread count... And if you alter the thread count, are you not then changing the name/design of the tartan itself? Or is it simply just a matter of doubling or halving the thread count to obtain the larger or smaller sett size?

[Paul Henry]

Wow, you learn something new every day. Now at the risk of exposing my ignorance, could someone explain HOW it's possible that a tartan might have more than one sett size? I was under the impression that sett size was determined by thread count... And if you alter the thread count, are you not then changing the name/design of the tartan itself? Or is it simply just a matter of doubling or halving the thread count to obtain the larger or smaller sett size?

The thread count is a fixed formula, but there is no reason why it can't be doubled/trebled etc , as long as the actual propotions remain the same.
A client wanted a kilt done in St Kilda which is a small red/ black sett, I got D Dalgleish to enlarge the sett so that red lines were about 1 cm wide, it looked great when it was finished, not at all like a table cloth!

[seanachie]

I own a PV kilt in Isle of Skye and I have noticed significant differences in sett size between mine and the various posted pics of 16 oz. wool posted by other members. I do agree that it does make a notable difference based on the size of the sett. In IoS I do like the larger sett size.

Also, Paul Henry's post reminds me of traits of a good kilt maker. Clearly Paul had the foresight to see the visual issue with the standard set and had Dalgleish make alterations in the weave. I have been largely lucky in that kiltmakers I have chosen have raised issues in discussion that I might have thought of, and clearly sett size is one that makes a difference.

[zazenkilter]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then aa 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then aa 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

This is not correct at all. The thread count of a tartan is there primarily to give you an idea of proportion, not to formally dictate the exact number of threads used. What defines the tartan is a combination of the pattern and colors, and if you change all the numbers in the thread count proportionally, the pattern (and therefore the tartan) remain the same.

This can be easily demonstrated by looking at how the thread count for one of the simplest tartans is typically rendered. The black and red "Rob Roy" MacGregor tartan is often written thus:
K=R

This means that the number of black threads is the same as the number of red threads, giving you the simple "check" design of the Rob Roy tartan. If you weave it with 8 threads per color, or 20 threads per color, or 32 threads per color, it would still be the Rob Roy tartan.

In fact, here are images of three different versions of the Rob Roy tartan found in a pattern book from the first half of the 1800s. All three are from the same pattern book, same weavers, same weight and quality cloth. All that is different is the proportion of the thread count. The tartan is the same.