COA identity/info help

**flairball** · 23rd January 12, 04:20 PM

Hello. Its been quite awhile since I've last logged on, or posted in Xmarks. Glad to see it is still going strong.

I need some help. I've been doing some genealogical research, and have uncovered quite a surprise. Along with that surprise came an image of a COA. I have been trying to find out anything I can about it, but Google has thus far come up short, so I thought I'd try here.

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Here is what I know:

Herres is the surname of my g.grandfather. This line descended from Germany. He was a brother in The Franciscan Order T.O.R. My family knows next to nothing about him, as he and my g.grandmother divocred and my grandfather was adopted by his step-father and renamed.

I am thinking that this might be some type of Franciscan Order internal award, or recognition type of thing. The latin phrase being a clue. I'll be contacting them too.

Anyway, and insite would be appreciated.

**ctbuchanan** · 23rd January 12, 04:26 PM

Apparently there is a Harris family coat of arms (English)which contains three Hedgehogs as you show.

But there is also a Scottish Herries that uses the motto you show: Dominis Dedit and also shows the stags head on the COA.

http://www.scotclans.com/scottish_cl...s/history.html

Hope this helps.

**ctbuchanan** · 23rd January 12, 04:33 PM

My best guess is that the name is Scottish --- I got this from the Surname Database. I can't help you with the German bit.

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/herries

Herries
This is one of the famous old surnames of Scotland, although the origin is almost certainly not Celtic or Gaelic, but Norman-French. In the 12th century there was a recruiting drive by the king of Scotland who needed an instant army to keep internal order. Who better to recruit from but the descendants of the famous Norman Army which conquered England in 1066. Many of these people were granted lands in England, but there was never enough to go around, and later generations of younger sons found it necessary to earn their crust with their sword. In the this case it is claimed that Heris or Herries is a form of the Norman surname Heriz, a family who held lands in Nottinghamshire, England granted to them in 1066. If so the first recorded nameholder is probably William de Heriz, who served King David of Scotland (1124 - 1153), and seems to have been granted lands by him in Dumfries and Galloway, where the name is still associated in the 20th century. The link spelling is probably that of Richard Hereis who held lands in Edinburgh, granted to him by King Robert 1st, (1274 - 1329), whilst David Heris was the bailie of Finlay Ramsay in Bamffshire in 1483.

**Piipriker** · 23rd January 12, 04:46 PM

I looked up the Armorial Général and the Siebmacher (the one volume I have) and came up blank.
The name is also not mentioned in my books on name origins. So the probability of the COA being german is quite small, IMO.

**ctbuchanan** · 23rd January 12, 06:09 PM

One more clue for you. The hedgehogs in the COA came from the French/Norman origin of the name. The French word for hedgehog is 'herissons".

Also see: http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...on/herries.htm

Therefore, not knowing your source for the German link, I think I would say quite confidently that the drawing you show is some representation of a Herries family crest of some kind and that the name is almost certainly Scottish with an origin going back to the Norman French - which includes some the Barons of Vendome who use a very similar COA.

One last bit: as this is the XMTS and tartan is what we are all about, it would appear that your Herries family is entitled to wear the Maxwell Tartan.

**flairball** · 23rd January 12, 07:28 PM

Thanks for the help guys. This is getting very interesting. I've been able to trace that line back 6 generations from my grandfather. My g.g.f. was first generation American, before him, as far as I've been able to trace back, everyone was born in Germany. Of course my research could be flawed, so I'll double check, and I'll invest in a german language dictionary and dig deeper. Of course this could end up going way back if there is a Scottish connection. Does anyone know if there is a Germany/Scotland connection? (I didn't read all the info in the links yet, so if it's in there just say so and I'll read it thoroughly.)