LOTS of questions

[MikiP]

Okay, so this is my very first post.

I'm after a Douglas Clan Kilt Package, to be sent to Canada in time for our wedding in 3rd week of May. I have very little knowledge of mills, wools, weights, textures etc.

I'm trying to decide who to order my Kilt from (well a partial package actually):

Kilt= Douglas DA Modern (as per Heritage of Scotland) 8 yard, Box pleat, to the stripe
Flashes= Douglas
Jacket= Contemporary & Vest, Black Barathea?
Sporran & Waist Chain= Something dressy, but not what everyone else has
Belt & Buckle= Contemporary, but classy
Sgian Dubh= Contemporary, but classy

I am a Morton, sept of Douglas. Which is the accurate Douglas Tartan for Morton?

My mum has told me we are a sept of the Black Douglas, and near as I can tell the Black Douglas has a red stripe, but the tartan she wears most often appears to be the Douglas Modern Green or Blue, or just Douglas Modern. Some of the sites that list all of these "Douglas Moder" varieties, look very similiar if not the same, and some look very different (Dark Blue and Green with White Stripe). Maybe its the lighting or photography?,

I believe we received scarves in this Tartan, made by Locharron, this Christmas from my mum, and it is this same Tartan for a Sash she will give my wife at the wedding. Should I just go with the Douglas Modern Green/Blue?

Next, what mill should I be looking for for the wool? I've been on a few websites now looking at the Douglas Modern Tartan, and I've seen:

Marton $$
Locharron $$$
House of Edgar $$$
Strathmore $$$$

What are the reputations of these mills, in terms of quality and consistency and why the price differences?

What I'm truly after is a dark Douglas Tartan, with the white stripe, modern I believe so as to match what my wife will be getting for her sash.

The other is, I need advice on either a 13 oz. or 16 oz. weight, as I'm concerned 16 oz. may be too heavy for all year (including summer) wear, but will 13 oz. be okay for winter use in Canada? Does the weight of the wool have a bearing on the colour as well?

The last question has to do with where I purchase from. I know there are advertisers/sponsors of this site such as Buy a Kilt.com, Burnett & Struth's (Canadian, big Bonus!), and Scotweb.com, which I have been to, but I have also been to the following:

Heritage of Scotland
Scotland Kilt Company
Kilts Direct
Geoffry Kilts

I'm seriously leaning to Heritage of Scotland, as they seem to have a lot of options for kilt pleat (box or knife) and sett/stripe in the rear, a massive inventory of accessories/acoutrements that I listed to help set me apart and be a bit more "contemporary", and also very reasonable prices, turn around times, and the like. It doesn't seem they offer Locharron wool/Tartan for Douglas, but do offer the Marton Mills, which is a better price point. This kind of goes back to the questions on which mills I should be looking at, but what am I sacrificing?

What I'm after is if anyone has experience with them, or "John Morrison" Kilts (Which seems to be their kilt maker), the quality and the like.

I'd like a Contemporary Jacket and Vest, and know nothing of Barathea, however some people have told me its quite smooth the touch, but a lesser form than Doe Skin used for Military Mess Dress. I'm after something my wife wants to feel on me, lol! The other sites I listed don't seem to offer much for what I'm looking for, except this at buy a kilt.com. They do also offer good kilt packages, but again not much selection for the things I want. Any advice?

I'd also like to get my oldest son (2) a PV kilt in the same Douglas Tartan, but that is proving hard to find. I could justify a wool one, as his younger brother (1 today!) will inherit it as he gets older, but at double the cost and knowing how I played in my "dress clothes" and looks I would get from my mum with her hair on fire when I wore them, I'm hesitiant to do so. My 1 year old can wear the kilt she fashioned out of a Douglas scarf for my oldest 2 years ago for now.

I think that's it.

It probably sounds like my mind is made up on Heritage of Scotland, but the quality of the kilt (I really want one kilt, in my proper family tartan to last me till I'm maybe buried in it), I'm thinking should be the driver where I get it from. I need some input here before I make this decision.

Take me to Scottish School, please!

[ForresterModern]

First priority would be to try to match any particular tartan you are already using in the wedding, so if you already have the sash in one mill's tartan colors and weight I would stick with that if at all possible for your kilt. For Canada 16oz should be fine, but you could also go with 13 if necessary. You are on a bit of a tight timeline to have a custom kilt made to measure but not out of the question, depending on who you get to make your kilt---that would be my second priority---contacting the various vendors directly to find out who can guarantee delivery of your kilt (and jacket presumably off the rack measurements) in your desired particular tartan within your timeframe. The rest is pretty much easy to get on relatively short notice or can easily be swapped out for something equivalent without anyone noticing the difference. Barathea is simply a solid wool twill fabric that is similar in weight and feel to wool kilt tartan without the pattern. Box pleated kilt will likely be an even more special order than a standard knife pleat.

I would start making phone calls immediately to various vendors about your particular needs in both kilt and jacket (be very specific about the details of what you want) as well as kit and your stated timeline, and see who can meet the need. three months is by no means impossible, but just at or outside the standard expectations of many vendors capabiities (regardless of what website advertising might suggest). Many can and will perform rush orders with faster turnaround, but there are many factors that can slow down even that request. Any vendor on this forum should be able to answer your questions, and get back to you with an estimate of cost and ability to meet your needed timeline. Others may too, but that is your choice.

Good luck, and congratulations.

j

[davidg]

First, welcome to the forum

Heritage of Scotland and John Morrison are owned by the same people, the Gold Brothers. Whilst they supply some good quality stuff they are also known for supplying the lower end of the market and you may want to research their reputation before using them

Any of the four tartan mills you mentioned are good and any kiltmaker should be able to provide you with colour swatches so you can see the colours and feel the weight, and my advice would be to look for a kiltmaker close to home. It is invariably cheaper because of import taxes etc and easier to deal with if anything goes wrong. I believe this forum owner is in Canada so that might be the obvious first choice for you (Freedom Kilts). Failing that in the US you have USA Kilts and the Scottish Tartans Museum shop. My fourth choice would be Scotweb which, although in the UK, are used to shipping your way. All of these retailers can provide everything you are likely to need and you can be assured of the quality

I'm in the UK and I would always recommend 16oz cloth. Wool breathes so is theoretically cool in summer and warm in winter. It has a better hang and swing than 13oz. But there is not a huge difference in weight and a casual observer will not be able to see any difference. I would simply go with whatever weight suits you best for colour, feel and sett size. Get samples sent to you and take some time considering which you like best

When you decide where you want to purchase from ask for advice from that retailer re the accessories. They all have access to the same suppliers and will guide you well. If they don't stock precisely what you want they will know where to direct you

[MikiP]

FM,

thanks for the quick response. I appreciate your input.

I've made some edits/addtions to my OP, and I'm wondering if there is a colour difference between heavier and lighter wools of the same mill? I'm looking at a swatch of 16 oz. and 13 oz. Douglas Green Modern Alternative Marton wool on the buyakilt.com site, and the 16 oz. seems darker

[KenB]

Ditto!
Depending on where you are in Canada, i.e close to Barrie Ont., I would give Burnett & Struth a call/visit. email Brandon @ B&S. B&S are very good.

[Tobus]

You might also want to check out DC Dalgliesh. If you can't find the exact tartan you want elsewhere, they can do a custom weave for you. You can choose exactly the colours and sett size you want.

The only caveat there would be that you may not have time for a custom mill run if the wedding is in May...

[The Rock]

Welcome to the forum, MikiP.
I am also from Canada, and I have dealt with Heritage of Scotland within the last couple years. I ordered a Prince Charlie kit and I upgraded the package kilt to a 16oz John Morrison. I also changed other options from the basic package, for example a masonic belt buckle, and I was pleased with the quality of all the components. I am not up on the finer points of kiltmaking, but, at least to my utrained eye, the kilt itself does look very good. I have no regrets whatsoever in my purchase.
As for shipping time, I recall that when I placed my order there was a time specified (I believe 1 - 1 1/2 months) when it was to be shipped. The package was shipped a couple days before that date and the shipment was received complete, just as I had ordered.
I had overlooked the customs, so I ended up paying Fedex about 30% of the purchase, but other than that, everything went as planned.

[Father Bill]

Welcome to the Great Rabble! We can likely help you better if we know where in Canada you are; I have great faith in John at Keltoi, one of our advertisers, based in Kitchener, but it's a real bonus if you can visit your kiltmaker. That's who should be ordering your cloth, and if you can have him/ her measure you up, so much the better!



Bill+

[MikiP]

thanks for the greetings all!

Location, location, location...

Well, normally I'm in Alberta, Canada. However, currently I'm deployed to Afghanistan. So, getting swatches to me in time for me to deside is going to be a PITA.

The first recommendation of matching my mill/tartan colour, I think is key. I did post a reply, but it seems to be delayed by a mod approving?

I've been doing some poking around at different mill colours, and from what I've gathered Marton Mills is the darkest of what I'm after. I had a look on Buy a kilt.com, and they have a Marton 16 oz. Douglas Green Modern, and the same but "alternative", which seem to be what I'm after. Plus it says its "teflon coated". Good for spilly times in the later evening ;)

The Locharron swatch that is coming up on my computer for the Douglas Modern, seems to be quite a lot more "blue", than what I thought it was for the scarves my mum bought us. Maybe I'm wrong? It's really hard with everything back home, and going from memory and computers.

With the added 30% for having this made in the UK that The Rock mentioned on top of HofS, I'm leaning towards somewhere in Canada now, but I didn't think it would be that much for import fees- 18% tops. Was this because of the FedEx, and would Royal Mail or City Link be cheaper? Would they even offer it to Canada?

David, I've read a few reviews of the HofS products on their site, and they all seem positive. This isn't to say they don't "groom" out the bad ones though, so I'll take it for what its worth.
Burnett's and Struth's doesn't look they carry the Marton wool, I could be wrong. Does Freedom Kilts or Keltois (unless I'm navigationally off, not much info on the Freedom Kilts site, and run time error on the page... government computers )


Again, I do need to nail down which mill the sash is from, so I'm gonna call mum to see if she knows which mill for sure the sash is from.

I do have other questions up there

[Riverkilt]

You don't specify where in the World you are - but regardless get on the phone - you're late now if you deal with a middleman. Be SURE to deal directly, and personally, with a kiltmaker with a good reputation. Closest one if you're near one. They can answer all your fabric and mill questions and figure out how much material to order up and order it up for you.

You can read horror story after horror story on this forum of folks who's weddings were altered due to no arrival of the kilt from a middle man - or weeks of panic with last minute arrival.

Let us know where you are, we'll reccomend solid kiltmakers...they do wedding stuff for a living and will give you personal attention so you won't have to be in that "we can't find your order number" situation...

BUT START NOW - YOU'RE LATE ALREADY. A full time kiltmaker is still gonna mean a three month wait (roughly) and that's MAY....