Scots-Irish

[Blackrose87]

Ive seen this term a few times on this forum in regardsto people's ancestors, but I'm not really sure who it is referring to.
I've never heard the term here, or back home (Derry).
Does it have any connection to the Ulster-Scots in Ireland, or is does it describe a completely different group of people I'm unaware of?

[Chas]

I think it depends on where you are standing. In London it is the Dover Road. In Dover it is the London Road. But it is still the same road.

Regards

Chas

[Blackrose87]

I think it depends on where you are standing. In London it is the Dover Road. In Dover it is the London Road. But it is still the same road.

Regards

Chas

So it is another term for the Ulster-Scots?

It's just that even though my father wouldn't describe himself as such, he was brought up in a Ulster-scots area (Ballymena) in such a family, but I've never heard the term used by him or my grandfather before.

[Chas]

So it is another term for the Ulster-Scots?

That is my understanding, but, in truth I don't know.

Regards

Chas

[Chas]

A thought has just come to me.

There was a time when boarding houses had signs outside saying a combination of:

No tinkers,
No gypsies,
No actors,
No Irish.

A man could call himself Ulster-Scots and would the landlady hear anything other than "Scots"? And if she did, would she be willing to show her ignorance?

I don't know if that is relevant or not.

Regards

Chas

[Blackrose87]

A thought has just come to me.

There was a time when boarding houses had signs outside saying a combination of:

No tinkers,
No gypsies,
No actors,
No Irish.

A man could call himself Ulster-Scots and would the landlady hear anything other than "Scots"? And if she did, would she be willing to show her ignorance?

I don't know if that is relevant or not.

Regards

Chas

That might explain why the term Scots-Irish is not heard in England, where these signs would have been seen.

But these signs would not have been present in Ireland, so would not have affected how the Ulster-Scots refer to themselves there.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Scots-Irish does refer to the Ulster Scots in a manner of speaking. Specifically, it refers to the Ulster Scots who migrated to the US.

The term was not so much used at the time of migration, I don't believe. People simply called them Irish. However, I think the term began to be applied to their descendants in the nineteenth century when the US saw a major influx of Irish immigrants (that's "Irish-Irish"). Those already here, descended from the Ulster Scots, described themselves as Scots-Irish to differentiate themselves from the new immigrants. There was a lot of prejudice against the new Irish immigrants at the time, remember.

Signs like these were in store fronts everywhere!

If you are interested in more, I wrote an article on the Scots-Irish immigration for the STM a while back.
http://scottishtartans.org/ulster.html

[Blackrose87]

Scots-Irish does refer to the Ulster Scots in a manner of speaking. Specifically, it refers to the Ulster Scots who migrated to the US.

The term was not so much used at the time of migration, I don't believe. People simply called them Irish. However, I think the term began to be applied to their descendants in the nineteenth century when the US saw a major influx of Irish immigrants (that's "Irish-Irish"). Those already here, descended from the Ulster Scots, described themselves as Scots-Irish to differentiate themselves from the new immigrants.

Why wouldn't they just use the term Ulster-Scots? It's the term that unionists in the north of Ireland use to differentiate themselves from the "Irish-Irish".

There was a lot of prejudice against the new Irish immigrants at the time, remember.

Signs like these were in store fronts everywhere!

If you are interested in more, I wrote an article on the Scots-Irish immigration for the STM a while back.
http://scottishtartans.org/ulster.html

Is it actually true that these NINA signs where present in America? I read this article saying otherwise:

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

But I'm sure there will be contradictng articles out there, which may show proof that there was.

[georgeetta]

I'll take a swing,

In 11th grade regents they called the Scots in Scotland the Scotch Irish it was to signify the NW folk the Irish ca what 500 AD that went into Scotland, St Columba ..I disagreed pointed out the multi cultural mix Vikings etc ..Irish, Picts, Britons ..well I got bad mark for being right he said he was going with what was in HIS book !

The Ulster Scotch was referred to the folks coming out of northern Ireland in the late 1700's into the early 1800's into the USA .

America was primarily English or German then, I know there was refernce to Scots being allowed to only settle north of New England near the Inidans as Scotland was a seperate country somehow . BUT many of the Roger's Rangers of New Hampshire were called Ulster Scotch and more confusingly Scotch Irish proabably wrongly .


Many of the US Presidents are called Scotch Irish they mean Ulster Scotch (or Scots) .

have to check a college elective text on American History .

yeah I heard about the NINA signs too ..my American Grandmother talked about them ..she was also a Clay (who married an Irish "grunny Fannie") and had no flaming idea she might be Scottish either !

th
d

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps I have been wrong in the past and whilst I am aware of Ulster's history, but I was always under the impression that a man from Ulster was an Ulsterman.