Kilts and Pipes Co-opted by Irish in America

[ctbuchanan]

I am very much aware of the commingling of Scottish and Irish customs and heritage. But it seems to me that in recent years you see more and more use of Scottish kilts and pipes during Irish events. This past Sunday I visited the "Ireland's Great Hunger Museum" (Músaem An Ghorta Mhóir) here in Connecticut. It was very moving and well worth a visit.
It was coincidentally St. Padraig's day and they advertised that they would have some special "Irish" entertainment. Well it turned out to be a very fine piper, fully kilted and playing Scottish bagpipes. He played perhaps 2-3 Irish tunes, but the bulk of his repetoire was Scottish tunes.
Here in Connecticut we have a very fine non-profit the Shamrock Traditional Irish Music Society which literally has hundreds of very fine Irish musicians. When I asked quite politely why they were featuring what was, for all intents and purposes, a Scottish entertainer and not, say, an Irish fiddler, harp, etc. They looked at me as if I had two heads and didn't really respond.
But I see more and more of a crossover at a number of Irish events and more people who see me in my kilt ask if I'm Irish?

[Father Bill]

You can't legislate knowledge, just teach it.

[Nile]

I hear you CT. Many of us on X-Marks are Scots or of Scottish decent and are very aware of our culture and cultural heritage; as such, we are generally more cognizant of the differences (subtle they be at times) than the general public (esp. the non kilt wearing).
I think there is a tendency in society as a whole, to overgeneralize (and under-accept) anything different. Not everyone will expend the effort to quantify what's different let alone try to understand it. When someone sees you in Scottish dress and thinks you're Irish, it's their problem, not yours.
You might say that there is a kind of celtic brotherhood between the Scotts and Irish (and descendants there of) but, beyond that, each celtic nation has its own identity including dress and customs.
Nile

[usonian]

Yep, I think that a lot of people in the US have a tendency to lump all things Scottish and Irish (including kilts, great highland bagpipes, and St. Patrick's day) together under a broad label of "celtic" or "gaelic". We here have a tendency to get incredibly specific and detailed in discussions about history, tradition and heritage, but we're the exception to the rule.

It's pretty much the same for any specialized area of knowledge, though; not many people notice or care when movie set in the 1860s features a banjo player playing bluegrass music on a fretted steel string resonator banjo... but it drives me crazy because I play banjo music from that period and know that the music, technique, and instruments were quite a bit different.

[Nik]

Another thing to keep in mind is that people have very poor scene of history and geography. Here in the states we don't understand that places as small as a state or two could have such a rich and colorful history as Ireland, all to themselves. When you look at Great Britain, that what people see, is one area of two major islands. Not that the Saxtons came to England, had a history of in fighting between the natives. All that good stuff.

Unfortunately the only option is what Father Bill proposed and that is teach them, if they are willing to be taught. Just be ready to adjust your method. I know because my wife is not one for history, she doesn't like it and finds history boring. So try to get people engaged when you are explaining it, a way that will correct them without just telling them they are wrong. Not that easy I know.

Besides I need to learn more about Irish history. I've got a family with heritage in that area and I aim to know more about that culture if I'm going to enjoy any of it.

-Nik

[Blupiper]

With you all on this. While I am an American, that represents a mixture of many Western European cultures (I just call myself a Western European mongrel, if asked. English, Irish, Scottish, French, German and probably more.) We can only do as Father Bill recommends and spread our knowledge as best we can. I see a pipeband, playing 'Scotland the Brave' and the the parade crowd hollering "Wooo, Ireland," well, it can be maddening. This doesn't negate the contribution that immigrants have and continue to make to this country. I would much rather listen to an Uillean piper on St. Paddy's (or many other times, as well), but they are thin on the ground in this part of the world--Great Highland Pipers a lot more numerous. Just keep up with the pipebands about playing some Irish tunes and music appropriate to the Day. So ends my two cents worth.

JMB

[pugcasso]

It's interesting that the kilt itself was not really "Scottish" as much as just what the "Highland" people wore. So the kilt being associated with all of Scotland would not have been true at one time but now , we see it as representing things Scottish.

Culture and traditions really always shift and change regardless of how much some people may want to hold them in place.

[Nathan]

This goes both ways. I've been at many a Highland games and burns night where Irish music was being performed. When I saw the Chieftans perform in Ottawa, a Highland bagpiper piped them in and they sat down an played Irish session music. Their guest musician was a Cape Breton fiddler as well.

As a 'Celtic' musician, I was raised in the Cape Breton Scottish/Gaelic tradition, but in order to keep the gigs coming, I had to learn a good amount of Irish, Newfoundland, and Scots songs - I enjoy them very much, btw. The same holds true for all the other Celtic musicians I know.

I think it's fair to say that Ireland (like most places on earth) have had pipe bands for a long time. As Matt Newsome pointed out in a well written article, the Irish nationalist movement attempted to appropriate the kilt and highland pipes in the early 20th Century with limited success. They called them "war pipes" sometimes although there is apparently a bag pipe in Donegal that is quite similar to the Great Highland, as is the Donegal fiddle style. Moreover, when Ross published his definitive pipe music collection, he got tunes from Scottish and Irish pipers.

Getting back to how the cultures influence each other both ways, it is getting very common to see Bodhran players in Scottish bands (The Corries, Slàinte Mhath, The Barra MacNeils). A lot of Scottish ceilidh bands also have tin whistle players and there has been a "resurgence?" of the popularity of the Clàrsach in Scotland.

This is nothing new, there are lots of tunes that show up in both repertoirs under different names. In fact, if we get right down to it, the Jig was originally an Irish tune/dance, and the Reel was originally a Scottish form. Now both the Irish and Scottish play jigs and reels although the Scottish strathspey hasn't really caught on in Ireland yet...polkas, clogs, hornpipes and marzukas come from elsewhere as well...

Nationalists try to maintain the differences, but other people see a shared Celticness and mingle freely. Who can blame others for getting confused?

[castledangerous]

Another thing to keep in mind is that people have very poor scene of history and geography. Here in the states we don't understand that places as small as a state or two could have such a rich and colorful history as Ireland, all to themselves. When you look at Great Britain, that what people see, is one area of two major islands. Not that the Saxtons came to England, had a history of in fighting between the natives. All that good stuff.

Unfortunately the only option is what Father Bill proposed and that is teach them, if they are willing to be taught. Just be ready to adjust your method. I know because my wife is not one for history, she doesn't like it and finds history boring. So try to get people engaged when you are explaining it, a way that will correct them without just telling them they are wrong. Not that easy I know.

Besides I need to learn more about Irish history. I've got a family with heritage in that area and I aim to know more about that culture if I'm going to enjoy any of it.

-Nik

Your efforts at education may fail miserably if you continue with generalizations such as, "Here in the states we don't understand..."

Also, it's Saxon, not Saxton.

[gwynng]

Being of only moderate Scottish descent, I identify there more than with the Emerald Isle; but still used St. Patrick's Day as an excuse to don my kilt with the most green (Turnbull hunting tartan). Seemed to be appreciated by the Irish and the Scots. If there is an official German Heritage, Canadian, countless US City, Islamic and Jewish tartans, I figure Highland wear has gone international enough to be enjoyed and appreciated by all.