kilts cut to the jeans waist vs kilts cut with a rise to natural waist

[Grae]

I have no experience in wearing a "modern"cut kilt with the waist being the jeans waist rather than the highrer natural waist position.

Clearly a lot of men are happily wearing their kilts at this jeans waist. I see an explanation given is that if you do not want to wear a waist coat then these kilts are a good choice.

What is the rabble's experience wearing a lower waisted kilt, are they comfortable? The straps being at the hips act like a belt I suspose.

I realise less yardage is less weight / pleat depth/ swing etc and as I wear less yardage kilts on ccasion( and rarely a waistcoat except in depths of winter) I was wondering way one would purchase a 4 or 5 yard kilt with a jeans waist rather than the higher waist with a rise unless it was for comfort?

I see reputable kilt companies make the "casual" kilt with the low waist and some with the higher waist.

Having seen a pic of Barb T's lovely Hudson Bay Kingussie with the lower waist for her daughter got me thinking if I was straight-jacketed into a single mindset and missing out on a good modern development in kilt design.

[The Wizard of BC]

As one who makes kilt that are designed from the ground up to be worn where ever the customer wishes it let me add if I may.

Not all kilts that are worn at less than full rise are 'casual' kilts or do they also have to have less than a full '8 yards' of fabric.

There are also more to the proper fit of a kilt than full rise and jeans waist. Depending on the customer's shape and physic has more to do with where a kilt is worn than this idea of 'one or the other'.

Another misconception is what 'full rise' really means.


So perhaps we should start at the beginning.

The location of a man's navel is a very fluid thing compared to his natural waist. The waist is determined by the bones. It is up at kidney level and just below the ribs. In fact a full rise kilt will cover the short ribs. This is not always the most flattering place for everyone to wear a kilt. Those we call 'Gentlemen of Substance' can sometimes look better if their kilt is worn differently.

Men today have never worn anything at their natural waist. All they know are jeans. It is true that when kilts were developed men wore their trousers at their natural waist, but say natural waist and all guys today can imagine are the photos of grandpa with his pants up, over his belly, and his tie about six inches long.

When I measure a man for a kilt the first thing I try to explain is that it is totally up to them where they want to wear their kilt. I then put a strap around them and let them move it till it is comfortable to them.
But that is not all. A kilt must sit naturally on the body. We have all seen pictures of the guys who have a problem with their kilt shifting up and down as they move. This is usually due to the kilt being made one way but the guy trying to wear it at another.

So I move the strap back and forth till it settles into that place on the guys body that it naturally wants to sit. Sometimes this is at full rise, and sometimes somewhere else. I have even had customers who need their kilt to be above the natural waist to fit their body shape.

The secret to making a kilt fit the body of the wearer is not in the pleats. The pleats of a kilt, from the hip down to the knee will be the same no matter where the wearer wants the waistband to be. This is the Fell area of the kilt. The only way to accommodate this difference is to change the Fell length.

A kilt made to fit at full rise will have a Fell that is longer than one made to fit at jeans waist. But everything from the hips down is exactly the same.

This brings up the low yardage thing. If you want the pleats of your kilt to swish like an 8 yard kilt you need to buy an 8 yard kilt. A five yarder or a two yarder will swish differently. This is just physics. The type of fabric and the type of pleats have far less to do with the swish than the weight and amount of yardage.

I don't make low yardage kilts. Because I started with solid colored fabrics I actually had to put more yardage into my kilts than a comparable wool kilt. I commonly wear a traditional style kilt in wool that has between 7.5 and 7.9 yards depending on the Sett. My kilts of my own design, in exactly the same fabric, will use between 8.3 and 8.6 yards.

In the end it is all up to you, the person in the kilt, how you choose to wear your kilt. If, however, you wish to wear a kilt at anything but full rise, may I caution that you seek out a kiltmaker who specializes in this type of kilt. A traditional kiltmaker may not know how to modify their design to accommodate the very short fell of a jeans waist kilts.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

As one who makes kilt that are designed from the ground up to be worn where ever the customer wishes it let me add if I may.

Not all kilts that are worn at less than full rise are 'casual' kilts or do they also have to have less than a full '8 yards' of fabric.

There are also more to the proper fit of a kilt than full rise and jeans waist. Depending on the customer's shape and physic has more to do with where a kilt is worn than this idea of 'one or the other'.

Another misconception is what 'full rise' really means.


So perhaps we should start at the beginning.

The location of a man's navel is a very fluid thing compared to his natural waist. The waist is determined by the bones. It is up at kidney level and just below the ribs. In fact a full rise kilt will cover the short ribs. This is not always the most flattering place for everyone to wear a kilt. Those we call 'Gentlemen of Substance' can sometimes look better if their kilt is worn differently.

Men today have never worn anything at their natural waist. All they know are jeans. It is true that when kilts were developed men wore their trousers at their natural waist, but say natural waist and all guys today can imagine are the photos of grandpa with his pants up, over his belly, and his tie about six inches long.

When I measure a man for a kilt the first thing I try to explain is that it is totally up to them where they want to wear their kilt. I then put a strap around them and let them move it till it is comfortable to them.
But that is not all. A kilt must sit naturally on the body. We have all seen pictures of the guys who have a problem with their kilt shifting up and down as they move. This is usually due to the kilt being made one way but the guy trying to wear it at another.

So I move the strap back and forth till it settles into that place on the guys body that it naturally wants to sit. Sometimes this is at full rise, and sometimes somewhere else. I have even had customers who need their kilt to be above the natural waist to fit their body shape.

The secret to making a kilt fit the body of the wearer is not in the pleats. The pleats of a kilt, from the hip down to the knee will be the same no matter where the wearer wants the waistband to be. This is the Fell area of the kilt. The only way to accommodate this difference is to change the Fell length.

A kilt made to fit at full rise will have a Fell that is longer than one made to fit at jeans waist. But everything from the hips down is exactly the same.

This brings up the low yardage thing. If you want the pleats of your kilt to swish like an 8 yard kilt you need to buy an 8 yard kilt. A five yarder or a two yarder will swish differently. This is just physics. The type of fabric and the type of pleats have far less to do with the swish than the weight and amount of yardage.

I don't make low yardage kilts. Because I started with solid colored fabrics I actually had to put more yardage into my kilts than a comparable wool kilt. I commonly wear a traditional style kilt in wool that has between 7.5 and 7.9 yards depending on the Sett. My kilts of my own design, in exactly the same fabric, will use between 8.3 and 8.6 yards.

In the end it is all up to you, the person in the kilt, how you choose to wear your kilt. If, however, you wish to wear a kilt at anything but full rise, may I caution that you seek out a kiltmaker who specializes in this type of kilt. A traditional kiltmaker may not know how to modify their design to accommodate the very short fell of a jeans waist kilts.

In 100% support of what Steve has posted, I would add that if you ever intend to wear your kilt with more than a polo shirt you really don't want one that hangs on your hips. The reason for this is that most kilt jackets and waistcoats are made to be worn with a kilt cut along more traditional lines, ie: with the top closer to your natural waist. Quite often, if the kilt is cut too low, the waistcoat won't properly cover the top of the kilt. When this happens there is a gap between the two garments which allows one's shirt to show, giving the wearer the appearance of an Oreo cookie with one side being tartan, the other tweed, and the white filling in the middle...

[Mainer In Exile]

Men today have never worn anything at their natural waist. All they know are jeans. It is true that when kilts were developed men wore their trousers at their natural waist, but say natural waist and all guys today can imagine are the photos of grandpa with his pants up, over his belly, and his tie about six inches long.

Some men may never have worn anything at their natural waist. But traditional bespoke tailors still dress plenty of men in suits with the trousers cut to be worn at the natural waist, with fishtail backs for braces. I might be wearing jeans today--with a high rise--but the suits in my closet are not worn low.

[Pleater]

It might be wise to consider your proportions and body shape when deciding just how high or low to wear the kilt. Proportion is important in any attire, but more so with kilts than an outfit with trousers or a long coat - when you have less t o work with then it needs to be more exactly made.

If you wear the kilt low down and have a long body and wide shoulders it can give an ice cream cone effect.

Pushing the kilt down under the belly can look rather like you ought to have bought a bigger size, or waited until after the baby....

For best effect there needs to be enough length of kilt to look right on the person wearing it - I suspect that is why some modern kilts are worn longer than the top of the knee, otherwise they look too skimpy.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[tundramanq]

Because I must wear my kilts very low - on my hip points. I got ahold of Rocky at USAK and we worked of a sizing to accommodate the more rapid size change between the "waist" and hip dimension of his Casual kilts I wear so that the pleats don't buck and curl using his regular patterning. My actual waist/hip is 33/36. What I order is 34/39. By going oversize on the hip dimension there is one extra tapered pleat on each hip and by the time the kilt reaches the actual hip the girth is large enough to avoid problems. The standard pleat sew down does extend about an inch or so below the actual maximum hip but is really not noticeable.
Talking to the kilt maker was a great idea here and prevented a lot of fabric and cash from being spent in trial and error.

I will second Anne's thing on the low waist "muffin top". It keeps me working on the "love handles" here

[Jack Daw]

I have one kilt that stops at the hipbone. It's something I'm not used to, so I'm not comfortable wearing it without a jacket and waistcoat to hide how low it is.

[JohntheBiker]

For "Gentlemen of Substance", wearing a kilt at jean waist would be an invitation to a wardrobe malfunction. Need the girth at the natural waist to hold the whole thing up, nevermind trying to get a level hem with the waist sloping from back to front. Quelle horreur!

[Wil]

This is a very interesting thought, to wear ones kilt on his/her hips. But what about tradition? Also when you see someone wearing his kilt on his hips what is the first thing you do? You elbow the guy next to you and say, "his kilt is too low...." I understand the ever changing belly size but I do not think I would take this non traditional way of kilt wearing on.....

[O'Callaghan]

I just have short legs. I have to wear kilts at the natural waist, wherever they were designed for, or the hem is just too bloody long! Sometimes it is anyway. Never have the same problem with trousers, wear them all low down.