Day and evening sporrans

[James Hood]

"Traditionally," a leather sporran is appropriate for "day wear" and a full mask or silver cantle hair one for evening.

However, as pointed out by numerous folks, there are danged few operas and white tie events on the typical X-Mark-ers social calendar.

Threfore, is a leather "daylight events" sporran adequate and accptable for a casual restaurant, pub, block party, non-symphony concert, gathering of friends...

...AFTER 6 PM, if worn with anything from polo, Oxford cloth shirts, pullover, casual jacket or definitely informal kilt jacket?

Thank you.

[Jock Scot]

In the circumstances you suggest then your day sporran will do nicely and is perfectly acceptable.

This day/evening attire thing can be a tad misleading. For example it is perfectly acceptable( correct even) to wear a tweed day kilt jacket, day sporran, etc., when taking the wife out for a quiet informal dinner in the evening, or an informal evening drinks do and so on. I know that I keep banging on about context------formal/informal( beware! The UK definitions are not the same as North America)------, but once that(context) is understood it does make ones clothing decisions so much easier.

[Downunder Kilt]

A full mask sporran is also suitable for daywear, informal nightwear, as you you describe James. It is one sporran that bridges the gap, being acceptable for casual right through to black tie.

[OC Richard]

In the circumstances you suggest then your day sporran will do nicely and is perfectly acceptable.

This day/evening attire thing can be a tad misleading. For example it is perfectly acceptable( correct even) to wear a tweed day kilt jacket, day sporran, etc., when taking the wife out for a quiet informal dinner in the evening, or an informal evening drinks do and so on.

Thanks for that Jock. As always it's valuable to get your perspective.

It's interesting to note differences between American and Scottish levels of formality. I've seen a large number of vintage (c1920-c1960) photos taken in Scotland of weddings in which the men present are wearing 'day dress' (Lovat tweed jackets etc). Here, regardless of whether the wedding is held during the morning, afternoon, or evening the men nearly always wear black tuxedos if in 'Saxon' dress or full Evening Dress (black Prince Charlies, fur sporrans, plaids, etc) if in Highland dress.

The brides in the vintage photos showing men in Highland Day Dress are wearing what appear to be ordinary dresses rather than bridal dresses. Here full white bridal dresses are worn at any time of day or night.

Interesting that my in-laws' wedding photos show the groom in an ordinary suit and bride in an ordinary (for the time) dress.

Here, men will wear full Highland Evening Dress for morning church services (such as at a Kirking of the Tartan service) which has always struck me as overdoing it.

However as I've said before I've been hired to pipe at daytime weddings here in which one entire side of the family has flown over from Scotland for the event and the Scotsmen are all in black Prince Charlies or black Argylls with fur sporrans, leaving myself, if wearing Day Dress, somewhat out of step.

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for that Jock. As always it's valuable to get your perspective.

It's interesting to note differences between American and Scottish levels of formality. I've seen a large number of vintage (c1920-c1960) photos taken in Scotland of weddings in which the men present are wearing 'day dress' (Lovat tweed jackets etc). Here, regardless of whether the wedding is held during the morning, afternoon, or evening the men nearly always wear black tuxedos if in 'Saxon' dress or full Evening Dress (black Prince Charlies, fur sporrans, plaids, etc) if in Highland dress.

The brides in the vintage photos showing men in Highland Day Dress are wearing what appear to be ordinary dresses rather than bridal dresses. Here full white bridal dresses are worn at any time of day or night.

Interesting that my in-laws' wedding photos show the groom in an ordinary suit and bride in an ordinary (for the time) dress.

Actually kilt dress daywear(morning suit equivalent) would be a black barathea, silver buttoned argyll with a four in hand(drop down) tie. The tweed day jacket is lounge/business suit equivalent.

[OC Richard]

Now here's an interesting photo, c1950 judging from the car, with the Bride in full array and the Groom (if that is the Groom) in Day Dress

[Jock Scot]

Now here's an interesting photo, from the 1950s judging from the car, with the Bride in full array and the Groom (if that is the Groom) in Day Dress

No, I am sorry, he is not in day dress kilt attire! He is wearing a suit equivalent, which is standared wedding attire for most kilted weddings in Scotland, in spite of kilt hire companies best efforts to change it. Kilt dress daywear(morning suit equivalent) is a black barathea, silver buttoned argyll with a four in hand(drop down tie).

[bwat]

However as I've said before I've been hired to pipe at daytime weddings here in which one entire side of the family has flown over from Scotland for the event and the Scotsmen are all in black Prince Charlies or black Argylls with fur sporrans, leaving myself, if wearing Day Dress, somewhat out of step.

That's how it is most often done in Scotland. The typical kilted Scottish wedding is in the "kilt hire" style. I would guess that to the Scots at that wedding you probably looked like you weren't making much of an effort but "a nice try for an American." Of course we all know you've forgotten more about highland dress than the average Scot will ever learn, but that's the situation today. The highland dress as seen through the kilt-hire-filter has been adopted as appropriate wedding attire by Scots from Gretna to the granite city. I think we really should be looking at wedding attire as its own, quite influential, sub-culture.

[CMcG]

Here's a pic and Jock's comment from another thread.

.....I thought that some might find the pictures useful, to show that thank goodness, not all Scots weddings are of the " kilt hire shop" variety these days.

Scots aristocrats, Edmund Salvesen and Abi Elphinstone, at their wedding. Courtesy of the Daily Mail:

[ASinclair]

"Traditionally," a leather sporran is appropriate for "day wear" and a full mask or silver cantle hair one for evening.

However, as pointed out by numerous folks, there are danged few operas and white tie events on the typical X-Mark-ers social calendar.

Threfore, is a leather "daylight events" sporran adequate and accptable for a casual restaurant, pub, block party, non-symphony concert, gathering of friends...

...AFTER 6 PM, if worn with anything from polo, Oxford cloth shirts, pullover, casual jacket or definitely informal kilt jacket?

Thank you.

James,

Yes, if the evening event (after 6 PM) is not formal (black or white tie) then 'daywear' is appropriate.