soldiers or posers?

[OC Richard]

These two photos just came up on Ebay.

They're listed as being Scottish soldiers. What do you see?





The first thing that jumps out is that their Glengarries aren't of the Argylls pattern (while the sporran, kilt, and hosetops are). But there were so many territorial/volunteer/overseas battalions with uniform that didn't quite match that of the parent regiment that "wrong" Glengarries isn't in itself proof that these men aren't soldiers.

Then I note that both men are wearing their sporrans the same way, and not the way a Highland soldier would wear them, too high and going over the jacket, saying "see me?"

The thing that clinches it is the way the diced hosetops are being worn. No Highland soldier would put them on like that, with the dicing all ahoo. And where are their flashes?

Both photos are stamped Morrison's Studios/137 Leith St Edinburgh and 21 Promenade Portobello.

Yes I'm sure they're not Highland soldiers, but young men, perhaps English or American soldiers on leave, taking tourist "play dress-up" photos.

[Pleater]

No expert at all - but the tunic is not cut away for the sporran, the kilt is crooked - perhaps too large? Belt buckle not centred.

The second button of the tunic is dark - covered over to indicate mourning?

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[OC Richard]

Good eye about that button! Odd, isn't it?

It was very common in WWI for Highland troops to be issued the non-Highland pattern jacket. You see a mix of both Highland and non-Highland jackets in the same unit. Oftentimes the long square jacket front covers the sporran, sometimes the corners of the jacket front are pinned or sewn back to crudely accommodate the sporran.

For comparison here's a real Argyll soldier. Note how precisely the diced hosetops are worn, and of course he's wearing flashes. (This is the khaki drill tropical-weight version of the Service Dress jacket.)



Another real Argyll. The sporran is over the jacket, but worn at the proper height. He has the flashes worn in the way of the regiment. Note that his belt is perfectly centered, while on one of the photos above in the OP the belt is off-center, not something you'd see in a soldier. It's the "snake" buckle often seen. The belts above in the OP photos are not familiar to me.



Now I'm puzzled more than ever about the photo below, showing the "wrong" Glengarry with the Argyll pattern sporran. For me the jury is still out on this one.



This photo has always had more questions than answers for me. Their Glens and kilts make sense. But one jacket has extra buttons, one jacket is very dark. Anyhow you can see the non-Highland pattern jacket with the edges of the front pinned or sewn back. You see this in many WWI photos.



Two Gordon Highlanders showing Highland and non-Highland jackets worn in the same unit

[Stitchwiz]

The fit of the second jacket is terrible through the shoulders. The QM would make sure the shoulders fit and the soldier would have to hem sleeves as needed. Notice both sets of sleeves are not the correct length.

The kilts are both the wrong size and therefore cannot hang properly on either man. Hose, belt, and sporran, etc., are all put on sloppily.

They are holding their sticks incorrectly.

You are probably right about these being studio shots of wanna be soldiers.

[Pleater]

The black covering was - unfortunately - a common sight during the Great War, indicating that the man had lost family or a close friend.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Stitchwiz]

The clothing is probably all legitimate even if the 'soldiers' aren't.

Thank you for the confirmation about the black button, Anne. It makes me wonder if anyone at the 'photo shoot' knew the significance of that black button.

We'll never know.

[The Q]

I think they are Early WW1 Soldiers, The huge increase in manpower meant there was a great shortage of uniforms and weapons (as there was at the start of WW2).
This could be temporary uniforms, issued for the first few days / weeks.
Or even new recruits not yet issued with uniforms, nipping down to the local photographers studio for a photo to be sent home to mum and dad.
I see no reason for not thinking they are soldiers, unless they were rejected, but don't want Mum and Dad to know!

The Village I used to live in on the edge of Salisbury plain had from around 1905 till post WW2 a photographers' premises, specialising in Military photographs, on the Railway station approach road so photographs were taken as they marched in!
Looking at photos of Soldiers of that period, the fit and " pressing" of a uniform even before WW1 was so poor as to get a soldier charged in modern times.

The station is at the top of the slope, as the London Scottish are marching down the slope in 1907, the Photographers is the tin shed on their left, the first pub is just to their right under the hotel, this Photograph would have been touted around for the troops within hours of their arrival along with invites to the studio.
Notice ( if my first attempt at a photograph comes out) at the time they are wearing Slouch hats (AKA Austrailian Bush Hat)which were adopted during the Boer War. So hats can change!!
And Notice!! The ladies watching the Kilts!

[Pleater]

Many people in the UK would have known the significance - I believe that there were perhaps 2 or 3 dozen 'thankful villages' found after the war ended, when the government was organising the war memorials. Almost every parish began to gather the details of their dead, but in just a few places they put up a plaque to give thanks for the return of all the men who went to fight.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[The Q]

and even fewer Twice Thankful villages after both World wars, the men marching down the slope will turn to the left at the bottom of the hill and march off to the encampment about a mile away, but nearly at that Junction is the spot where the War memorial is today, with names from both wars.
I doubt few of those men in the picture made it to 1918...

[Pleater]

My grandfather, born 1892 went to enlist, but he was so small - about 4ft 9in tall and very slightly built - that he was sent home.

Anne the Pleater :ootd: