maternal heritage - can i wear a clan kilt?

[nixonshaun]

Hi,
i thought I would reach out for some professional advice regarding clans and clan history and whether I am able to wear a clan kilt associated with my direct family lineage.

On my father's side of the family:
My grandmother a Jameson belongs to clan Gunn and served as president of a chapter of the Caledonian Society in South Africa.
My grandfather came from Northumberland in the UK and as far as I know he has no Scottish heritage.

On my mother's side:
My grandfather was a Cunningham.
My grandmother was of Dutch descent.

I would imagine that typically membership in a clan would be passed down through the fathers side of the family. Does that mean my father cannot be a member of the Gunn clan considering his father was English and therefore I would be unable to be a member of the Gunn clan?

Or, am I able to join either clan, Cunningham or Gunn if they would have me. My grandmother on my fathers side is a more direct line and she was more involved. I would like to join the Gunn clan if possible.

thanks in advance for all the assistance.
shaun

[ibrew4u]

Hi,
i thought I would reach out for some professional advice regarding clans and clan history and whether I am able to wear a clan kilt associated with my direct family lineage.

On my father's side of the family:
My grandmother a Jameson belongs to clan Gunn and served as president of a chapter of the Caledonian Society in South Africa.
My grandfather came from Northumberland in the UK and as far as I know he has no Scottish heritage.

On my mother's side:
My grandfather was a Cunningham.
My grandmother was of Dutch descent.

I would imagine that typically membership in a clan would be passed down through the fathers side of the family. Does that mean my father cannot be a member of the Gunn clan considering his father was English and therefore I would be unable to be a member of the Gunn clan?

Or, am I able to join either clan, Cunningham or Gunn if they would have me. My grandmother on my fathers side is a more direct line and she was more involved. I would like to join the Gunn clan if possible.

thanks in advance for all the assistance.
shaun

Many fathers didn't come home from visiting the neighboring clan, so there are strong ties to the matriarchal side of the family. And I hear Sean Connery wears his mother's tartan...

[The Wizard of BC]

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about the Scottish Clan system, Tartans and just about everything having to do with them.

May I suggest you take a look at a few sources of information.

The authoritative source on the Clan System today is The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs. There are a lot of claims and misinformation on the web. Some that say or claim that this or that name are a Clan cannot be found on The Standing Council

http://www.clanchiefs.org.uk

You can be 100% Scottish and not be a member of a Clan. Just because you can trace your lineage to Scotland does not automatically make you a part of a Clan. Historically the Clan System was only in the Highlands. The majority of the population lived in the cities and the lowlands.

There are two good sources for information on Tartan.

The Scottish Register of Tartan is operated and maintained by the Scottish Govt. https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/

Another site which has an alphabetical listing and pre-dates the Register is The Scottish Tartans Authority. http://www.tartansauthority.com/
You have to click on the little "Tartan Ferret" to go to the search area.

Take a look at the dates of the Tartans Most Tartans are not ancient.

If you would like learn about heraldry such as Coats of Arms may I suggest you go to The Court of The Lord Lyon. www.lyon-court.com

Many people are surprised to learn that under the Scottish system there is no such thing as a family coat of arms. You can also learn the definition of a Clan and how a Clan Chief is appointed.

The best advice anyone can give is not to believe everything you see on the web. Go to the authoritative source.

[nixonshaun]

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about the Scottish Clan system, Tartans and just about everything having to do with them.

May I suggest you take a look at a few sources of information.

Thanks Wizard, i am somewhat familiar with the resources you provided.
My grandmother (who was born in Scottland) and her family claim direct heritage to the Gunn clan. Her maiden name is Jameson and changed to Nixon when she married my grandfather after moving to South Africa.

my problem is that i have the last name Nixon which is an English name as my grandfather was English from Northumberland in the UK.

So while my grandmother's heritage is well established, mine is somewhat mixed as there is both English and Scottish.

On my grandmother's side the Gunn tartan is recorded and well known, there is a new Gunn clan chief appointed by Lord Lyon in 2015 after 230 years.?

I guess my question is would it be disprespectful to wear a Gunn tartan as i am of mixed heritage on my paternal side?
Do I need to apply to the Gunn Clan of North America and seek membership first or do need to seek permission from the Gunn Clan chief?

I absolutely love my heritage but want to make sure I do things correctly without insulting people who have a more direct lineage to their Scottish ancestors.

[Father Bill]

Some clans see this differently than others, but in general, my sense is that the clan system was set up to recruit warriors. Thus if you married into the clan, you were a member and so were your children. While patrilineal heritage has historically been considered to take priority over matrilineal, both have been considered over the years. Thus if Mr. Turnip married Miss MacOnion, he was a MacOnion; end of discussion.

Some clans also even recognized those who lived within their territory as having fidelity to the chief regardless of surname. My own Clan Chief, Malcolm Sinclair has said in writing that if someone shares the goals and beliefs of the clan and is faithful to it, then they are members. That is probably the most liberal of all the statements and interpretations, and others will surely and correctly tell us shortly in this thread that what I've said does not apply to their clan. Having said that, my general sense is that clan membership does not necessarily mean that you must have the same surname as the clan's chief.

Finally, I've been told many times here on XMarks and elsewhere that historically the concept of septs is largely non-historical, and that while many clan chiefs list septs that they recognize (Malcolm does), it doesn't fit the original clan concept so closely.

Maybe (he said with tongue firmly planted in cheek) it was good marketing ploy for weavers to sell more tartan!

In short, I think you're probably over-thinking it and worrying too much.

[nixonshaun]

In short, I think you're probably over-thinking it and worrying too much.

Thanks Father Bill, I think you are right. I tend to do that.

I am also pleased to meet someone from the Sinclair clan. If memory serves, the Sinclairs and Gunns lived in close proximity to each other up north near Caithness and at times they were friends and at other times foes as it is with many clans. I believe when Henry Sinclair traversed the ocean and discovered the America's before Columbus did he had members of the Gunn family with him, including the James Gunn.

I think i will apply for membership with the Gunn Clan of North America and have them resolve this issue.

Is it ok if i send you a "friend request" on the X Marks forums?
shaun

[Father Bill]

Sounds great!

I'll look for that request and of course I'll accept it. Yes our clans were proximate and like any set of brothers, we fought and made friends again over and over. It's the way things happen among framily. This Sinclair and Gunn can be friends for sure!

I think you may have meant to say that you would apply for membership in the Clan Association. You're already a member of the Clan by birth for all the reasons I noted in my last post.

Take care neighbour, and I look forward to your further participation here at XMarks!

[Pleater]

I wear the Armstrong tartan because my father's maternal family were Wilsons and connected with the Armstrong Sidderley car makers - they were mostly engineers but also farmers, the younger ones went off to do apprenticeships with steam engines originally. Dad was besotted with the cars - particularly the Sidderley Sapphire.

I don't aspire to or claim anything to do with the Armstrong clan, but I doubt that anyone would get into a snit over that kilt - particularly as there is a connection, even if only a tenuous one.

Anne the Pleater

[tripleblessed]

The border was fluid for hundreds of years, and much of Northumberland was at times in Scotland. The Earls of Dunbar
held sway in what is now England, and after supporting Scotland in a losing fight with England had to move north to survive.
Nixons were on both sides of the border wherever it might have been, and were listed as a border clan in the 1597 decree
by the Scottish Parliament. I note that because I have always been of the opinion that Parliament, living in and among
clans, was probably in a better position to know what a clan was/is and who was or wasn't than modern historians and
the many who like to limit such things to their own little group. Nixons, Bells, Olivers, Jardines, and the like were clans.
Period. When it became apparent that the border folk, militarized and impoverished by both sides, were not suddenly by act
of Parliament going to become calm, peaceful, and docile, they were bundled up and shipped out to Ireland and/or the colonies.
Many sent to Ireland found it a less than happy shift, and after a generation or three moved on force, necessity, and/or choice to North America or Australia. Digging around in one's genealogy reveals some very grim times for those unwanted by the Crown
and/or their chiefs.

Nixons were family regardless of where the border wound up, and while Armstrong is armigerous, it does have a family trust
and there is the Clan Armstrong Society, which considers Nixons, Croziers and Fairbairns as family.

Kilt up, and have fun.

[neloon]

Bill,
I think there is much in what you say. However, to quote Sir Crispin Agnew of Lochnaw Bt, who has for many years been Rothesay Herald

"... if a person offers his allegiance to a particular chief by joining his clan society or by wearing his tartan, he can be deemed to have elected to join that particular clan and should be viewed as a member of that clan unless the chief particularly states that he or his name group are not to be allowed to join the clan."

From
http://www.electricscotland.com/webc...lies_septs.htm

Alan