Some Belted Plaid/Great Kilt Questions

[bertwert]

First thing is that I'm new here, so hello!
I've been looking at getting myself a belted plaid for while now, but considering the price of good quality 16oz wool is around $90 a yard, it gets expensive. Now I've found some clearance wool from a reputable source that was pretty cheap at $15 a yard, it's described as '12oz Merino Wool' and I was wondering if that would be too light. I would like to use my plaid in a 'traditional way', and go for hikes/short overnight trips, carrying not much more than an average highlander would have carried. So the plaid would be used for sleeping in, would thinner wool have enough insulation quality for a cool night and I've heard wool when wet can insulate just as well or better, so I want it to be fine in a wee bit of rain and keep me warm. The tartan is brighter than I'd like, but it will suffice at that price (Royal Stewart). Maybe I'll just get it anyway, even if it is not perfect, for the cheaper price. Another question - how long would it need to be? I see some places saying 4 will suffice, some saying 5 is a good average, and some people saying get 6 so you know you have enough. I'm not a huge guy, around 34-36" waist and 5'11".*I think 4 is probably good but may get 5 to err on the safe side. Now I also want to get period correct clothing to match, I would get a blue woolen bonnet, and a thick leather belt (around 3 inches?), so some sort of brooch. Shirt and footwear are my biggest questions. The typicall jacobite shirt you see sold at highland stores, is not techincallyy period-correct, but who'd know. Now I wouldn't want a cotton one for hiking, but I found a polyester one at a nice price - so I might get that. The other idea was a simple knee length lenin shirt, I could make one from a bedsheet, I just don't know how well linen persons outside, and when wet etc... Lastly, footwear. A lot of time I will go simple barefoot, but for some hikes that is not an option. I was thinking I could fashion some brogues out of some cowhide? Also with them were they barefoot in the brogues or did they wear any hose? I've also got a dirk I am making out of a file right now and I plan on making a simple leather pouch with a drawstring for a sporran. Any suggestions at all?
Thanks.

[Nomad]

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

As an ex soldier who has spent some nights under the stars I would say that unless the temperature was going to be higher than 15 degrees Celsius and dry I wouldn't want to sleep out overnight under some kilt material, my reasons are below:

The bodies natural temperature drops when sleeping, so you will naturally feel the cold more, especially between 2-4 am.

Highlanders, in fact nearly everyone living in temperate climates over a hundred years ago was much more used to the cold - no central heating for them. Also their diets, when the could afford it, would have tended to be higher in fat and calories, because they needed it to keep warm.

There are much better materials available today, a gortex bag for sleeping in is totally waterproof, small and light and would make using the plaid much more practical , a highlander would have killed for that option.

Merino wool is warmer than sheep, but I doubt it would hold up to the rugged use you plan for it, the normal wool used for kilts is substantially cheaper than merino, so it may be worth looking for an alternative.

If you are determined to use plaid as your only protection for sleeping outside I would go for at least 16 oz and 5m as you would want to have enough to lie on and throw over yourself, thereby forming a bag.

Whatever you go with, good luck, and test it somewhere safe, like the back garden before venturing out into the wilds. I am sure people with much more knowledge than me will be along to offer some good advice.

[bertwert]

Merino wool is warmer than sheep, but I doubt it would hold up to the rugged use you plan for it, the normal wool used for kilts is substantially cheaper than merino, so it may be worth looking for an alternative.

'Normal' kilt wool that is 16oz weight, is all around $90/yd. Even 12oz wool is $60-70. This 12oz Merino wool I found is only $20/yd. If you know any sources of cheaper 16oz wool please let me know

Thanks.

[Pleater]

You'd not be sleeping on the ground though, when sleeping 'rough' - the usual method is to create a raised area with branches and twigs easy to break off, and then cover that with soft stuff to lie on, all in the most sheltered spot you can find.
I don't know how easy it would be to do in other parts of the world, but in most areas of Britain it is possible, though the more natural the better.

[bertwert]

You'd not be sleeping on the ground though, when sleeping 'rough' - the usual method is to create a raised area with branches and twigs easy to break off, and then cover that with soft stuff to lie on, all in the most sheltered spot you can find.
I don't know how easy it would be to do in other parts of the world, but in most areas of Britain it is possible, though the more natural the better.

Exactly, that's what I plan on doing.

[Steve Ashton]

I'm one of those that does not believe that Scots of old would have used modern kilt fabrics.

I tend to believe that they would have used something more akin to a boiled wool blanket.

We simply do not know for a fact what was used. There is no historical documentation of what a Great kilt was or how it was worn. Everything you see today is re-creation or fantasy.

But - There is good documentation of what is called the Brat and also the Matchcoat.


A Leine and Brat.



A Matchcoat



If it were me I would do what I believe the Scots would have done. Use what is readily available and inexpensive. A bed blanket. The Brat and Matchcoat above are about the size of a double bed blanket.

Heck, even the N. American peoples readily adopted the boiled wool blanket as soon as it became available.



This idea of using what was readily available at the time and not modern fabrics just makes too much sense to me.

[figheadair]

I'm one of those that does not believe that Scots of old would have used modern kilt fabrics.

I tend to believe that they would have used something more akin to a boiled wool blanket.

We simply do not know for a fact what was used. There is no historical documentation of what a Great kilt was or how it was worn. Everything you see today is re-creation or fantasy.

This idea of using what was readily available at the time and not modern fabrics just makes too much sense to me.

Steve, there is likely to be some truth in what you say. Last year I read the draft of a very interesting paper on Hodden Grey and related mixed wool cloth which was widely worn. Hopefully this will be publically available soon. I’m not sure about ‘boiled wool’ but fulling (waulking) would have had much the same effect of thickening the material. This type of material were what one might called, in tartan terms, plain cloth. It’s likely that such cloth was worn over a linen shirt during the mid-late middle ages through to the 17th century. Tartan appears to have become increasing popular and more widespread across all social ranks from the early 17th century.

In tartan terms I’ve never seen an example of 18th century cloth that is thickened/felted as a result of waulking. It is the case that the majority of surviving specimens would have been associated with the better off and/or used for best so may not be truly representative. Of the surviving specimens I’ve examined there are two types of cloth; fine, hard tartan and the less fine and tightly woven cloth that is thick and would have been more practical for outdoor protective wear.

[bodhran4me]

Remember if sleeping on the ground there is significant heat loss through conduction to the earth. You can have six inches of insulation on top of you but if you are losing heat to the ground you will be cold. The reason people use insulated sleep pads is due to conductive heat loss. An inexpensive pad like the Klymit Static V will make a world of difference to both comfort and temperature. It will also offer some protection from the dampness as well. Get the camo version and nobody will know you are cheating!

[Taskr]

I'm not sure that hiking around Golden BC in the same cloth used to sleep in is a good idea, but I do admire the adventurousness of it.
If it were me I wouldn't wear anything less than 4yds double width heavy weight. That is a lot of cloth, but as the evening air temp drops, I'd want to be able to roll up more of the wool cloth around me. As Steve mentioned, to paraphrase, the hand of modern weaves is meant more for style and fashion than the warmth of sleeping outdoors. Whatever you get, the heavier the better because of that.

[OC Richard]

There is no historical documentation of what a Great kilt was or how it was worn. Everything you see today is re-creation or fantasy.

At least we do have both verbal accounts and imagery. Loads of imagery, in colour!

There are many things from previous centuries which we have only a vague description, or only a weathered statue; yet we do the best we can to understand the past using the evidence we have.

Yes all the great kilts made and worn today are re-creations. It's like that with any ancient stuff that we don't have surviving examples of. Too bad we don't have an original one to examine- therefore some details will have to be guessed at.

I always imagined that the old "mantles" (as writers often called them) were fairly thick stuff, different stuff than the elegant great kilts worn by 18th century aristocracy which we have so many images of. Years ago a piper friend had a great kilt made of the sort of stuff I imagine- it was tartan, yes, but the weight and feel of Harris Tweed or Donegal Tweed.