Piper's plaid with something other than a doublet

[Barb T]

Awhile back, someone posted a thread about wearing a piper's plaid with an Argyll jacket (http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-jacket-45062/). I'm resurrecting the question, because I can't see how it would even be possible to actually put on a pipers plaid properly unless the garment has serious epaulets, like those on the doublets that pipers wear with piper's plaids.

Just to be clear, I'm talking about a pleated piper's plaid like the ones below:



These plaids are pleated and permanently stitched across the width of the plaid in several places (see yellow lines below - pic comes from Chris Eyre's Piping Pages http://www.eyrewaves.co.uk/pipingpages/plaid.asp, so they are very different from a laird's plaid or a fly plaid.



The following video shows how one of these bad boys is put on properly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ytc6LqWyms - the short end of the plaid starts out in the front, and the long end starts out in the back and is pulled forward over the shoulder at the end of the process to be held with the broach. The epaulet seems to me to be critical - without it, you can't get the whole thing tight with the short end tucked in the back. I asked my daughter about it (she's in the middle of the pic above), and she can't see either how it would work without a serious epaulet.

So it seems to me like it's a moot point. Even if you wanted to wear a piper's plaid with something like an Argyll jacket, I don't see how it would be possible. Yes, I know that Argylls and Prince Charlies have decorative epaulets (which don't unbutton), but I can't imagine stuffing two thickness of a piper's plaid under one of the epaulets - at least I can't imagine it with my own band Argyll jacket. But is this what people do if they wear a true piper's plaid with something other than a doublet?

Or do they just not wear them properly? Do they wrap them around and just pin them with the short end hanging in the front and the long end in the back and not do all the other steps?

Or is it just a question of terminology, and the kinds of plaids people are talking about aren't true piper's plaids?

Would love to have someone help me on this and let me know if I've slipped a gear somewhere in my reasoning!

[Tobus]

I wouldn't know about the piper's plaid, since I don't own one (nor would have any reason to). But I don't think it's true that all Argyle jackets have non-functioning buttons on the epaulets. I have at least two vintage Argyle jackets with epaulets that unbutton. I have no idea whether they would be sufficient for a piper's plaid.

[davidlpope]

I've seen it done before with a black Argyle, but it looked terrible. The biggest issue isn't the epaulet, it's that the piper's plaid wrapping around the chest is not well-suited to the less-fitted, "gappy" front of an Argyle. The front of the jacket doesn't look right because it pulls in all the wrong places and the white shirt and necktie are unsightly, as well.

I'll see if I can find a photo.

[Tobus]

I've seen it done before with a black Argyle, but it looked terrible. The biggest issue isn't the epaulet, it's that the piper's plaid wrapping around the chest is not well-suited to the less-fitted, "gappy" front of an Argyle. The front of the jacket doesn't look right because it pulls in all the wrong places and the white shirt and necktie are unsightly, as well.

I'll see if I can find a photo.

Hmm. I disagree. Granted, these aren't piper's plaids with tightly stitched pleats, but they are worn to the same overall effect. And I think they pulled it off quite nicely. It doesn't look terrible, at least. And it's certainly a traditional Highland way of wearing a plaid, though it would look costumey today.

[davidlpope]

Hmm. I disagree. Granted, these aren't piper's plaids with tightly stitched pleats, but they are worn to the same overall effect. And I think they pulled it off quite nicely. It doesn't look terrible, at least. And it's certainly a traditional Highland way of wearing a plaid, though it would look costumey today.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

[Barb T]

Tobus - the pictures you show are not the kind of plaid I'm talking about. They aren't structured in the same way and they aren't worn the same way.

David - I totally agree with you about the question of look and fit - worn properly, a piper's plaid is really snug across the chest, side, and back and is tucked up under the right arm pit, neither of which work at all with the fit of a Argyll jacket. What I'm curious about is how someone would even attempt to manage the stuff that has to go on at the left shoulder if they were to try to wear a piper's plaid over an Argyll jacket.

[Arnot]

What I'm curious about is how someone would even attempt to manage the stuff that has to go on at the left shoulder if they were to try to wear a piper's plaid over an Argyll jacket.

Maybe add some sort of tie to secure the plaid if the epaulette were not sufficient? Still not the best idea to wear it with the Argyll jacket, though.

[Tarheel]

Thank you Barb for the visual instruction. I must comment on the "big honking epaulet" that the plaid is passed through. That is not a normal part of my wardrobe. Still, useful information and adjustments can be made to secure a fly plaid.

My apologies, I meant to type piper's plaid instead of fly plaid. Most jackets I have contact with have small epaulets that would have to be replaced with larger strips of material.

[Barb T]

....adjustments can be made to secure a fly plaid.

So I'm curious about exactly what you would do to "secure a piper's plaid" if you didn't have those big honking epaulets?? And I assume you mean piper's plaid, not a fly plaid? Because the issue doesn't arise with a fly plaid, and the question in this thread is specifically about a piper's plaid worn with something other than a doublet with sturdy epaulets.

[OC Richard]

To me the wearing of a modern stitched "piper's plaid" looks strange and anachronistic with anything other than the military-style doublet for the simple reason that the modern stitched long plaid is a recent invention designed specifically to be worn with military-style doublets.

This change to the way long plaids are made, and look, far post-dates the early 20th century sea-change in civilian Highland Dress under which long plaids ceased to be worn with civilian Highland Dress.

It's like wearing a Victorian frock coat with camouflage pants- the two are from different centuries.

In the Victorian period long plaids were commonly worn in the military and by civilians, originally loosely draped around the body. In the army a trend started of wrapping them more tightly. This trend seems to have accelerated when civilians stopped wearing them.

The army used plaid brooches with the long plaids, the loosely-draped civilian long plaid was usually worn without brooch.

So if I were to wear a long plaid with civilian dress I would want the traditional original non-stitched kind, and loosely draped around the body. It would look like historic Highland Dress rather than traditional.

A Victorian civilian wearing a long plaid with an Argyll jacket



Here's a civilian wearing a long plaid with an Argyll jacket, but having the plaid tighter, and using a brooch



A looser style of wearing the long plaid



Loosely draped but with brooch



Victorian soldiers could wear the long plaid loosely too



Here is why they weren't called "piper's plaids"... because they were never exclusively worn by pipers either in the army or in the civilian world. Two officers of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders showing the typical rather haphazard way plaids were worn around the body



Something rare in Victorian military photos, a plaid pleated in a precise way