The joys and dangers of Ebay pipes

[OC Richard]

I got my first set of pipes in 1975 and have bought and sold a large number over the decades.

I've been a daily Ebay bagpipe watcher for many years. Both of the Highland sets I currently play are great-playing pipes from the 1940s that I got off Ebay for a fraction of what a new set would cost. In my opinion my vintage pipes play circles around new pipes costing three or four times more. I see tremendous bargains get zero bids all the time.

That being said, Ebay is fraught with dangers for pipers who haven't developed a sense of the used pipe market, pipers unfamiliar with vintage pipes, and pipers who haven't developed an eye for the sometimes subtle indicators of Pakistani pipes. I see people wildly over-pay for horrible Pakistani pipes all the time.

So let's look at some pipes on Ebay now. One set is particularly instructive, as it doesn't fit the usual perceptions.

First is a vintage Lawrie set "refurbished by Dunbar". For those not aware, the further you go back the more alike Lawries and Hendersons become, both in look and sound. Early Lawries like this one will be fine-playing professional instruments. Looks like Rick Pettigrew at Dunbar Bagpipes removed the original mounts (probably Catalin) and replaced them with the very strong and durable imitation ivory that Dunbar has used for many years.

This set has a minimum, it has already cycled through without reaching it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bagpipes/11...QAAOSwltBgDGR2

Speaking of Dunbar, here's a delrin/polypenco Dunbar set for a very low price. This set will never crack or break and can withstand any weather and almost any abuse and give you a terrific vintage Henderson sound, the ideal set for a beginner, a youth, or for a piper's parade or backup set. Many pipers play poly Dunbars as their only set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunbar-P3-B...UAAOSwt1Zeo5jU

Sometimes sellers don't understand what vintage pipes are worth, and wildly overprice a set. Just don't be the newbie who wildly over-pays! Here's a Gillanders set from c1950 to c1980 fully mounted in Catalin, the much-hated "pumpkin" imitation ivory of that era. Gillanders are very good pipes but sets like this, sturdy Catalin-mounted African Blackwood sets from good Scottish makers from a half-century ago, usually sell on Ebay for well under a thousand dollars. I've see this exact Gillanders model sell in the $700 range.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/bagpipe-of-...AAAOSwf1xgEAKL

Here's a very nice set that would do any piper proud, for a fair price. But beware that it's mounted in Ivory which is illegal to ship across International borders. If a US buyer gets this set they're in danger of losing their entire investment, if US Customs seizes it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Afr...8AAOSwLxpbjZhC

Lastly the set that got me to do this post, for it has much to tell.

Many pipers will look at this and see a vintage Catalin-mounted African Blackwood set from a legitimate UK maker. That was my first-glance impression! But a closer look reveals multiple red flags. Look at the tartan of the bag-cover. Gordon yes, but obviously not real UK-woven tartan. There's something not-quite-right about it. Next, and this is going to sound nitpicky, are the little rubber donuts or fat O-rings that hold the cords onto the drones. These are a telltale sign of Pakistani pipes. Happily the seller shows us the bag and it's a characteristic Pakistani leather bag.

So, you say, why isn't it a nice vintage UK-made set which has had a Pakistani bag, bag-cover, and cords added? It's possible but extremely unlikely. I can't imagine an owner of a legit set going out of his way to acquire a suite of Pakistani accessories. In fact I don't think I've ever seen that. What I have seen is the opposite, a Pakistani set dressed up with a UK-made chanter, bag, bag-cover, and cords.

To know 100% that the wood parts are Pakistani I would need some more closeup in-focus photos of the wood, or better yet a photo showing one or more of the internal bores. I suspect the pipes are of Sheesham wood (tan colour) which has been painted black. However Pakistani pipes made of Ebony or African Blackwood do exist, so the wood itself isn't necessarily diagnostic.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Set...QAAOSw2QlgFy0K

[WalesLax]

I absolutely love that you set up this thread. I have a set of Naill's with engraved nickel that I use 90% of the time and a backup set of Dunbar Poly pipes, so I definitely do not NEED another set of pipes by any means, but as you wrote, I too like browsing through what is listed on eBay, playing the "is this garbage or could I get a really good deal" game.

I have enjoyed reading this post as much as I enjoy your sporran posts, and genuinely hope you keep this thread going. I have asked others in my band for feedback on some pipes I have found but almost always get the reply that I "need to stop looking at bagpipes on eBay," so I am hoping this turns into a space where I can ask questions, offer opinions, and find some interesting insights.

Rob

[Grump]

Excellent post. My hat is off to you for being able to figure out exactly what it is you are looking at on the ebay site. Many times the pictures are misleading. As you say the Dunbar refurbished pipes are probably a good deal . Dunbar business does good work and well worth taking a chance with.

[OC Richard]

Thanks gents!

The Ebay identification game sometimes comes down to guesswork. Often it's due to the seller providing poor photos.

I know a piper who has done more buying and selling of vintage sets than anybody I know of, and even he was fooled once! Well not fooled exactly, because he knew the risk he was taking. The seller had posted photos that weren't capable of giving a positive ID. The pipes were either a nice vintage set, or a Pakistani set that didn't have any of the characteristic features of Pakistani pipes. They turned out to be the latter.

Possibly the greatest Ebay bagpipe victory I know of is another friend who spied a set of pipes going for $100 with no bids. It was a very strange-looking and ugly set; the mounts were hideous and of an unknown material. But my friend thought that the pipes themselves looked like they might possibly be vintage Hendersons.

He bought the pipes (no other bidders) and when they arrived he discovered that they were indeed wonderful 100-year-old Hendersons! And the mystery of the ugly mounts was solved: The pipes had integral blackwood projecting mounts, which some previous owner had painted over with white paint! It took a lot of work to clean those up, but now he has one of the finest-sounding early Hendersons around.

Another friend picked up a fine vintage Henderson set on Ebay for around $500. Why? They had been mounted in silver, which some previous owner had removed, leaving ugly rough wood showing where the mounts had been. He bought the pipes and sent them to Naill to have new silver put on. The result is a fabulous-looking and sounding early Henderson silver set.

[OC Richard]

Back to Ebay, I think that Gillanders set for $2,580 is wildly overpriced.

Here's another Gillanders set for $1,000 and I feel that this set too is a bit overpriced. It's been up on Ebay for a while now, so other people must think so too. I think if this set were listed for $700 it would probably sell.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gil...gAAOSw6qBfYk96

Here's a set that could be very fine-sounding, a later Lawrie. It's probably from the 1960s or thereabouts. I've owned Lawries from this period that were wonderful pipes, big tone and extremely stable. I'm not sure if they will sell at this price- some people hate Catalin-mounted pipes, and some people are scared off by Lawries of this period.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bag...YAAOSw8l1gEuYW

[WalesLax]

Funny enough, those Lawries were on my "watch" list. The low price actually made me a bit nervous.

I feel like there are three very distinct buyers of pipes on eBay - Scotland, Canada, and the US. Scotland seems to have a plethora of pipes, but they are overwhelmingly "average" pipes. People in the US are looking for pipes, but I get the sensation they are looking for something "special," which is why the plain sets and sets with Catalan mounts don't sell for a lot. I can't lie, I am definitely one of those Americans always on the lookout for an ivory set that doesn't have to cross borders, silver, and/or something rare/with a story. I think Canada sort of is a mix of those two, but I have noticed that there are a lot more non-eBay options in Canada than the US, primarily Kijiji. I come up every so often for work, piping, and curling, and I am am always amazed at how well my trips coincide with Kijiji going silent. ;)

Anyway, that's enough about me. Now back to waiting to see what exciting sets you unearth! (...and I absolutely will do the same when I come across some and/or have time to go through my list with questions for you)

Rob

[WalesLax]

First is a vintage Lawrie set "refurbished by Dunbar". For those not aware, the further you go back the more alike Lawries and Hendersons become, both in look and sound. Early Lawries like this one will be fine-playing professional instruments. Looks like Rick Pettigrew at Dunbar Bagpipes removed the original mounts (probably Catalin) and replaced them with the very strong and durable imitation ivory that Dunbar has used for many years.

This set has a minimum, it has already cycled through without reaching it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bagpipes/11...QAAOSwltBgDGR2

I was watching this set that you had pointed out, and saw one of the more frustrating things that happens on eBay from time to time.... the auction ended, reserve was met, the seller decided it wasn't enough, so they re-listed the item.

I simply don't get how people are able to get away with that.

Rob

[OC Richard]

Here's another Kintail from the 2000's, I have no experience with Kintails of that period.

They're gorgeous pipes, looking like a full-silver set, but nickel. AFAIK these "engraved nickel" Kintails weren't actually engraved, but had the design rolled and/or stamped onto the mounts. Kintail did a large number of these sets both in nickel and brass. A Kintail with "engraved" brass mounts is a beautiful thing to see, when the brass is polished and the pipes look like gleaming gold.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kintail-200...AAAOSw7C1gICwJ

This closes in a couple hours, no bids. I think the price is terrific for a set like this, unless Kintails from the 2000s are known/said to be subpar. I don't know.

I would worry about how heavy these pipes are. The vintage full-silver sets (1880s-1930s) that I've seen and held have had projecting mounts fabricated out of sheet silver, hollow, so that these sets aren't much heavier than any other set.

But Naill makes their full-silver sets with heavy cast-silver projecting mounts, and there's no way I would want one of those sets on my shoulder.

I don't know how these Kintail projecting mounts were made.

[OC Richard]

Here's a great pickup for somebody: 1970s Grainger & Campbells for $525 Buy It Now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970s-Grain...wAAOSw~xRgKZOQ

My old Pipe Major played G&Cs from around that period, silver & ivory, which had a wonderful tone.

Poly Dunbars for a $400-odd Buy It Now, great-sounding backup pipes/parade pipes for somebody.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunbar-P1-P...kAAOSwZylgK0NO

Here, near the beach in Southern California, every guitarist has their "beach guitar". A beach guitar is a good-sounding good-playing guitar that's seen better days, perhaps the finish is trashed, and you don't care if it gets bashed a bit. It's the guitar you take to the beach, when everybody sits around the fire and sings Beatles songs.

Likewise pipers have "beach pipes" which is the equivalent of "parade pipes", pipes that sound good but can take a beating. Poly Dunbars are perfect beach pipes.

In any case, here are some nice Naills with an incredibly low current bid, but it's one of those "reserve not met" things that I find annoying, because the seller has a price in mind but doesn't share what it is. The seller also doesn't have much history.

There's a loose mount and they've put electrical tape around the mouthpiece. Neither of these things bother me- it's easy to put mounts on tight, and I'm going to use my own blowpipe anyhow.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DN2-Bagpipe...AAAOSwu7RgK0rz

[OC Richard]

These came up this morning and I did a Buy It Now.

They're Kintails stamped 1981. My Pipe Major plays silver & ivory Kintails from the mid-1980s and they're amazing pipes.



I love that they have the bling, but with imitation ivory, so are fully legal.