Preposterous video and my response

[OC Richard]

I just now came across this video which perpetuates the entirely false narrative that the Romans "failed to conquer Scotland" and couldn't handle the fierce Caledonian warriors.

I had to set the record straight. Seems like I'm the first to comment, and it's a doozy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi71Aikz3aM

[geomick]

Some sources make the claim that there were 2 main reasons for Hadrian's Wall. 1. a controlled point of entry network to tax goods coming in from the North. 2. a way to prevent raiders who were harassing Roman settlements from easily escaping North to hide from the Romans.

[OC Richard]

I've read a pile of books about Roman Britain and the bottom line is that nobody is entirely sure what function the walls that Hadrian built around his Empire were meant to have.

One mistake many people make is thinking that Hadrian's wall was unique. In fact, Hadrian had walls constructed to delineate Roman boundaries across Germany and North Africa as well as Britain.

The most mystifying thing is that specific boundary-lines flew in the face of how the borders of the Empire worked.

Romans considered their Imperium being boundless (Imperium sine fine). In fact the borders were layer upon layer. Beyond the Provinces were kingdoms of the so-called "client kings" ("friends and allies of the Roman people") and beyond those were kingdoms and/or tribes which had looser relationships with Rome. Thus you would encounter Roman traders and Roman diplomats well beyond the edge of the Provinces proper.

This is why Hadrian's system didn't fit Roman practice. There were always Roman forts north of Hadrian's Wall- going beyond the wall didn't mean going beyond Roman influence and control.

So the Romans themselves probably didn't see the point of these walls.

Best we can figure they were there, as you say, to help regulate trade. Thousands of people crossed through the walls every day, and they were taxed for everything they brought across.

Also as you say probably to inhibit banditry, which was a constant problem in the Empire.

[OC Richard]

Another common mistake is the idea that Hadrian's Wall was a fortification.

We've all seen the imaginative illustrations: there's purportedly Hadrian's Wall, looking like a proper Mediaeval fort, with a walkway and crenelations along the top, which the Romans are fighting from.

But there's no evidence for this, and good evidence against it.

First, the Romans didn't fight from inside of forts. When an enemy approached they would pour out of their camp and assemble in the open in their tried-and-true formation, where they reckoned to have their best chance of success. And they had indeed defeated everybody this way. (We call these Roman structures "forts" but "camps" better describes their function.)

Second, though the top stones of Hadrian's Wall don't survive anywhere along it, similar walls in other parts of the Empire do survive intact, and these walls are topped with a row of simple pointed capstones.

What these walls have in common are small buildings spaced out along them, within sight of each other. We know that (at night at least) Romans used fire to send signals along these watchtowers. What we don't know is if they had some kind of semaphore which they used during daytime.

Generally the big forts are well behind, and can send aid when needed.

[figheadair]

I just now came across this video which perpetuates the entirely false narrative that the Romans "failed to conquer Scotland" and couldn't handle the fierce Caledonian warriors.

I had to set the record straight. Seems like I'm the first to comment, and it's a doozy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi71Aikz3aM

A good comment Richard. Your point about there being nothing worth conquering/hold land for is pertinent. A simple look at the map of Roman forts shows that the Romans were much further north of the Antonine Wall. It reinforces that it was the Highlands that they 'failed to conquer' / didn't bother because there was no economic benefit.

First century Roman temporary camps in Scotland


The biggest of these, Inchtuthil, is about 3 miles from my house.

[OC Richard]

As one expert wrote

"There were permanent outposts, several of them forts capable of holding an entire auxiliary unit, maintained well in advance of the wall. In most respects these forts appear typical of those built elsewhere, with no hint of exceptional defences to suggest that the troops there faced a permanent and serious threat of attack."

Under Governor Agricola the Romans campaigned for several seasons in Scotland, and finally in 83AD faced a Caledonian force drawn up for battle for the first time, at "Mons Graupius". After this resounding Roman victory they built forts to blocks to block raiding parties from coming down the glens. After a massive Roman defeat in Dacia (in which two Roman armies were destroyed) Britannia was stripped of troops and the Romans withdrew to the Forth-Clyde line.

A further Roman campaign in Scotland under Governor Urbicus resulted in the Romans declaring victory and building the Antonine Wall, which was later abandoned with Romans forts being dismantled in a "neat and tidy" manner with no evidence of a Roman military defeat. (It's conjectured that this was due to a rebellion in the Pennines, an area of repeated unrest.)

Then of course Severus and his son Caracalla mounted a series of annual campaigns in Scotland, never able to bring the Caledonians to battle, though ravaging and committing genocide in the Midland Valley and having a couple tribes sue for peace.

Roman forts extend to the Moray Firth though it's unclear sometimes whether a fort dates to Agricola or Severus.

[Hirsty]

My mother lives on a house built on a Roman camp just south of Edinburgh. My wife was working at the National Museum of Scotland and here office mate was working on a marching camp near Stonehaven.

It is pretty much understood that, like Ireland, it was not economically worth extending the empire to this region.

The painted people to the north were described as fierce and barbaric but so was everyone who did not fall under Roman rule.

[kilted2000]

Unfortunately, this is a common myth. It goes with the idea that the ancient Caledonians wore tartan. People need to read Tacitus. He wrote Agricola about his father in law so objectivity is an issue, but still worth it.

[Allan Thomson]

I've read a pile of books about Roman Britain and the bottom line is that nobody is entirely sure what function the walls that Hadrian built around his Empire were meant to have.

One mistake many people make is thinking that Hadrian's wall was unique. In fact, Hadrian had walls constructed to delineate Roman boundaries across Germany and North Africa as well as Britain.

The most mystifying thing is that specific boundary-lines flew in the face of how the borders of the Empire worked.

Romans considered their Imperium being boundless (Imperium sine fine). In fact the borders were layer upon layer. Beyond the Provinces were kingdoms of the so-called "client kings" ("friends and allies of the Roman people") and beyond those were kingdoms and/or tribes which had looser relationships with Rome. Thus you would encounter Roman traders and Roman diplomats well beyond the edge of the Provinces proper.

This is why Hadrian's system didn't fit Roman practice. There were always Roman forts north of Hadrian's Wall- going beyond the wall didn't mean going beyond Roman influence and control.

So the Romans themselves probably didn't see the point of these walls.

Best we can figure they were there, as you say, to help regulate trade. Thousands of people crossed through the walls every day, and they were taxed for everything they brought across.

Also as you say probably to inhibit banditry, which was a constant problem in the Empire.

Not just across Germany, many years ago I walked part of the Limas in the Hessen forests with the Scouts. A couple of years back in the Netherlands I walked another part of it by chance with some friends. It was strange thinking it was over 32 years between!!

[Canadian Vet]

"Build it and make the Picts pay for it!" Emperor Hadrian was quoted as saying.