Fly Plaid at Burns Supper?

[jlove]

Hello everyone,


I can't find a definite answer on the internet so I thought I would ask here. Next month, I'm attending a Burns supper. Would it be looked down upon if I wear a fly plaid with my PC? Possibly thinking primary using it just for photos and remove it once I sit down and have dinner. I will be attending as a guest and not a part of the event.

Many Thanks!

[Jock Scot]

If you want to wear a fly plaid then do so. However, many from the "old school" of thinking, on this side of the Atlantic would consider it to be rather excessive, unnecessary and frankly, a damn nuisance. I think many outwith Scotland tend to want to go rather "over the top" with their attire for that particular occasion and unfortunately many have followed suit over here for the event, I think encouraged by the kilt hire industry.

Many who wear the kilt are unaware, or don't appear to grasp that a tweed kilt jacket is the equivalent of a suit in Saxon terms and as such a drop down tie would be the normal choice. At a guess more tweed kilt jackets will be worn on Burns night in Scotland, than all the other versions of kilt jackets lumped together. Yes of course there will be formal Burns do's as well which will be black tie events, but they will be in the minority.

[TheVintageLibertine]

My understanding of dress etiquette is that plaids are appropriate but optional for black and white tie. So, if the event’s dress code is black tie, then it’s up to your preference, I think.

However, like Jock Scot, I’m of the view that plaids are an annoyance and, personally, prefer to minimize my accessorization in highland wear.

The Burns Suppers I’ve attended in California have been “black tie optional.” I always notice a mix of Prince Charlies and black Argyles with a smattering of random doublets, plus a contingent of guys in “Saxon” tuxedos and suits.

[Panache]

A fly plaid should only be worn when the dress code is either black tie or white tie with a PC or a doublet.

In addition to this, I would only wear one if I were in some sort of “lead” position at said event (the groom at a wedding, the Master of Ceremonies at a Burns Night or the presenter addressing the haggis). They are dramatic and make you stand out. However, most (not all) of the time this isn’t a good thing.

I have had one for 20 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I have worn mine (and one of those was a time as a model when I was asked to wear full formal highland attire!)

They are also challenging, but not impossible, to dance in.

Given that you are just attending the event, even if it is a formal one, I’d leave the fly plaid at home.

I hope you have a wonderful time at your Burns Night!

[OC Richard]

As a former RSCDS dancer yes indeed I never wore accessories such as plaid, sgian, or dirk when dancing was likely to happen.

I've always been interested in history in general and the history of Highland Dress in particular and thus I take the long view on things.

Like any other form of fashion Highland Dress has gone through multiple stages of evolution with things going in and out of style at various points in time.

Formal Highland Dress had a quite large set of traditional accessories and throughout the 19th century it wasn't uncommon to see a gent wearing most or all of them when going out for an evening do.

The wearing of accessories was beginning to peter out in Edwardian times but World War One put the final kybosh on nearly all of them. By the 1920s men generally dressed for evening without the old accessories, which were

Dirk & dirk belt
Sword & sword belt
Plaid & plaid-brooch
pair of all-steel Highland pistols
Powder-horn
Sgian

with only the Sgian sometimes seen.

And so Highland Dress has stayed, as Jock Scott pointed out.

With my Historian's eye when somebody appears wearing even part of the Victorian panoply of accessories it seems like a Victorian costume rather than modern Highland Dress.

Here's a comparison of c1905 Evening Dress and the de-accessorised Evening Dress of the post-WWI period which is still in vogue today.



Here at left is a Victorian gent in full Evening Dress showing every possible accessory, and at right a gent around WWI showing far fewer accessories. Note that tartan or diced full hose, and buckled shoes, are still considered required. (Notice the right-hand gent is not wearing the Prince Charlie coatee, which was new at that time and considered only suitable for young men. Older gents were recommended to wear the traditional Doublet, which he is. Of course the left-hand gent isn't wearing the coatee as it wasn't yet invented.)

[Jock Scot]

OCR.

Nice to see some of your pictures appearing again!

[jsrnephdoc]

Note that the only thing that distinguishes an ordinary gent's outfit and an ordinary piper's outfit is the style of doublet. (The wearing of Glengarries was quite common among civilians in Victorian times.)

Is it possibly relevant that the very notion of a Burns Supper is based on the "immortal memory" of an event first held in 1801?

Would not accessorization of one's dress for the evening in a manner that might have been appropriate for THOSE times be just as appropriate as modern highland dress?

And, as a corollary obervation (and honest question) is it not the case that many of us in the diaspora have the BRITISH Royalty during their visits to Scotland as the most indelible images on which to base our concepts of contemporary kilted attire? (seconded, or perhaps even surpassed by images of pipers marching in bands?

Richard, are you aware of any images made from people who actually ATTENDED early Burns Suppers?

(I'm generally curious and uninformed, rather than attempting to advance a proposal here).

[Janner52]

My question would be “What dress does the ticket or invitation state?” And go with that.

I would agree that fly plaids are an unnecessary hindrance. Black tie looks better with a clean simple look. See OCR’s picture No 2.

If you want to add an individual touch do it with the hose or sporran.

Good to be able to view your pictures again Richard.

[Jock Scot]

[QUOTE=jsrnephdoc;1413113]I---------



And, as a corollary obervation (and honest question) is it not the case that many of us in the diaspora have the BRITISH Royalty during their visits to Scotland as the most indelible images on which to base our concepts of contemporary kilted attire? -------------(seconded, or perhaps even surpassed by images of pipers marching in bands?



/QUOTE]

One needs to divorce pipe band attire (military and civilian) from civilian non band attire. Yes, they are similar but not the same. Chaos will ensue if you don't.

[OC Richard]

Is it possibly relevant that the very notion of a Burns Supper is based on the "immortal memory" of an event first held in 1801?

Would not accessorization of one's dress for the evening in a manner that might have been appropriate for THOSE times be just as appropriate as modern highland dress?

Interesting question!

Should Americans dress in 18th century costume to celebrate the 4th of July?

And 17th century costume to celebrate Thanksgiving?

Might people wear 1st century costumes to celebrate Christmas?

For sure there are some people who do- people who are part of historical re-enactments of these events.

And I have heard of Burns Suppers like that, some performers in historical costume for a staged show.

However our usual 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Robert Burns celebrations aren't historical re-enactments but modern gatherings in modern clothes. (Yes ugly Christmas jumpers might be seen, or Stars & Stripes-themed t-shirts, or kilts, depending.)