A question to stump the tartan experts.

[Dreadbelly]

Ok. This is complicated. So bear with me. I'll have to go in to some details and background here.

My family has some very mixed reactions to what I am doing... Trying to "live out" all of my different cultures and re-establish all of my roots. Which is trying... I am heavily racially mixed. I want to be a living soup, a mishmash of assorted cultures woven into the very fabric of my being. Hence the kilt wearing and other little details. Some very mixed reactions to my kilt wearing in my family... The worst of it being from the Scots, which is shocking. They think I am a :fewl: for wanting to wear ancient dress in modern times. They don't get it. Some of the Native American types in my family are actually much more supportive of my notion to wear a kilt. Some seem to recall that warriors wore skirts... Times have changed. Instead of leather, I wear tartan.

And so, this morning, I get a phone call from somebody I have never met. A family member.

A gypsie.

I was suprised to say the least. I know they are in my family. I know that the bloodlines are very strong, and very, very old. But I know very little about them.

So, on the phone, I met somebody with the same goal as me. To try and find out more about the family, our roots, culture, all that jazz. And we talked for a very long time. I found out things I already know, but learned in greater detail. My gypsy bloodlines were very nearly destroyed by the Nazis and the concentration camps. I am, at best guess, 3rd or 4th generation from those that fled to America from Europe, followed by those that survived. I found out from my distant cousin on the phone that there are still living survivors... Those with tattoos on the arms.

He had heard from one family member who had heard from another family member that had heard from another family member (you get the idea) that I wore Scottish skirts. He knew what they really were, kilts. He knows that I try to restore bits and pieces of all my cultures to honour where I come from and the bloodlines involved.

He asked me if there was a way I could honour my Gypsy kin somehow with my kilts. I didn't know how to answer, but swore I would try my best. Gypsies absorb other cultures in to their own and weave them in to a beautiful tapistry of life, art, music, and beauty.

I don't even know where to begin. My first thought was the Blackwatch. The Nazis didn't like the Blackwatch. But I have doubts. I am not sure if that association is appropriate. The gypsies suffered as victims under the Nazi's hands, and the Ladies from Hell did do glorious battle, but I doubt that the Blackwatch were somehow even remotely responsible for saving the Gypsies.

What I would like is some kind of tartan that would somehow pay tribute or otherwise have some kind of tie to gypsy culture, if such a thing is even possible. This is really important, and I'll accept almost anything, even if it is really reaching. If you reach far and long enough, you will find that all are brothers, and all cultures connect somehow. At least, I believe in that idea.

As a side note, I found out that gypsy males wore skirts, and some still do. It may be interesting to have a whatever style of skirt they wear made from a Scots tartan... At least I would hope that would be ok, respectable, and acceptable. I don't even know what those skirts are called, what they look like, or what they are traditionally made from. It makes me sad. I don't even know how to begin looking.

Thanks in advance for any help that somebody can offer.

[macwilkin]

Dred:

Just for information, the regiment is "The Black Watch" (two words), not "Blackwatch".

Sorry for being nitpicky.

T.

[Dreadbelly]

Dred:

Just for information, the regiment is "The Black Watch" (two words), not "Blackwatch".

Sorry for being nitpicky.

T.

Sorry. I keep doing that even though I know better. I know it is two words. I don't know why I do that.

[macwilkin]

Sorry. I keep doing that even though I know better. I know it is two words. I don't know why I do that.

No worries.

T.

[Ialtog]

I gotta say, you post some of the most intriguing questions on XMarks. This is really great - its given me something fun to turn around in my mind today (rather than doing actual work).

I have one tartan I would like to throw out there while I'm thinking of others. Sometime ago I came across a post on XMarks about a very unusual tartan that was created by one of the Scottish mills to help raise money for bird conservation. The tartan is named after a bird - the Capercaillie. I think it is the only tartan ever named for a bird.

The reason I suggest it is that the Capercaillie usued to have a very extensive range throughout northern Europe, down into the mountainous country of central and eastern Europe. It is a far-ranging bird, found in some of the more remote country utilized by Gypsies (as far as my limited knowledge of these people are concerned). It is a "natural" tartan, like the Granite Isle, that celebrates (in my mind) wildness and nature rather than a clan or people. It sort of struck me as maybe an appropriate choice.

[davedove]

Dred:

Just for information, the regiment is "The Black Watch" (two words), not "Blackwatch".

Sorry for being nitpicky.

T.

Although, as a historian, you probably also recognize that before the standardized spelling, it was probably recorded both ways, and probably several other ways as well.

Black Watch
Blackwatch
Black Watche
Blac Watch
etc.

[bubba]

Dread, perhaps get together with these folks and design a Rom tartan Splitting the cost a bunch of ways should make it affordable and you'd end up with a specific tartan just for that bloodline.

[davedove]

The reason I suggest it is that the Capercaillie usued to have a very extensive range throughout northern Europe, down into the mountainous country of central and eastern Europe. It is a far-ranging bird, found in some of the more remote country utilized by Gypsies (as far as my limited knowledge of these people are concerned). It is a "natural" tartan, like the Granite Isle, that celebrates (in my mind) wildness and nature rather than a clan or people. It sort of struck me as maybe an appropriate choice.

That does seem appropriate. It is highly unlikely that gypsies would have an officially recorded tartan, considering they are not known for their adherence to local authority. In fact, officially recording one just doesn't seem right for a gypsy tartan.

[Dreadbelly]

Bubba, that is an idea... But I don't even have a phone number to call him back. He said we may speak again soon once he has access to another phone.

Something tells me these people live on the road. I have no contact info. They must keep in touch with some family members somehow. First I've even heard of these folk really.

Any tartans celebrating wine?

The bird idea is interesting because of the "free as a bird" ideals involved in their lifestyle.

The family name is Sourwine. I've heard that name mentioned before in the family, just learned where it came from and why it is important.

[Warlock]

Comcast Sucks! been trying to post for 15 minutes!

That said, Dreadbelly, mi Lad. Try Rocky's German-American Tartan. I think that that would go a long way in Honouring alot of your Heritage. All it's vast roots. It's also a very nice tartan. I support your endeavours 100%! Good on yae, Laddie!