Question about tartan in Italy

[Xabaras]

I start over from what I posted in my first thread:

"...I choose the Royal Steward, starting from the History of "Bonnie Prince Charlie", who was born and raised in Rome, and apparently give the right to the Roman Citizen to wear this tartan because the hospitality given from the catholic people and from Vatican. His mortal remains are still here in Rome, in the crypt under S. Peter Cathedral.

I'm still finding an official confirmation about this. (maybe someone here can help)."

Maybe M. A. C. Newsome can help?

[Dirk Skene]

If I were on such a quest I'd check out the vatican website. There may be some info as to who all is buried under there. At least there should be

[Galician]

Bonnie Prince Charlies is indeed buried there. I think that the real question being asked is if it is true that he gave the people of Rome authorization to wear the Stewart tartan in gratitude for the hospitality he received.

[macwilkin]

Bonnie Prince Charlies is indeed buried there. I think that the real question being asked is if it is true that he gave the people of Rome authorization to wear the Stewart tartan in gratitude for the hospitality he received.

While it certainly would be appropriate for someone from Rome to wear the Prince Charles Edward Stuart tartan, I'm a bit leery of the claim that the Bonnie Prince authorized the people of Rome to wear "his" tartan. Being a resident of Missouri, I suppose the old "Show-Me" rule is in effect here.

I would instead suggest the City of Rome tartan:

http://www.caledoniansocietyofrome.org/html/Tartan.html

http://www.cityofromepipeband.org/uniforme.html

Here is a tartan with a documented tie to the Eternal City.


Regards,

Todd

[Xabaras]

Reading around, I discover another thread identical to mine. And with the same answer!
About the city of Rome tartan, the explanation about the base colours kill my enthusiasms immediately:

"Black and Navy Blue represents the Italian National football team colours"

Football? The sport with the rounded ball? Not for me pal!

Again, sorry for the duplicate discussion.

Cheers

[Ancienne Alliance]

I hope you find a solution to your question.
Welcome from France.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

It is true that a strong connection exists between Bonnie Prince Charlie and the city of Rome, and for this reason Italians seeking to wear a tartan have often been advised to wear the Prince Charles Edward Stewart tartan. (It's an older form of the Royal Stewart tartan -- if one were to choose to wear the Royal Stewart tartan instead, I don't see anything wrong with that per se; however there are those who believe that the Royal Stewart tartan should properly be reserved for the use of the Royal family, and whether or not you accept that, choosing the Prince Charles Edward Stewart tartan avoids that issue).

However, it would be historically incorrect to suggest that the Prince himself gave any kind of authorization, or "right," to the Roman people to wear this tartan. For one thing, he lived during a period before there really were named tartans. The practice of wearing tartans in a representative fashion had not yet developed. For another, there really is no such thing (then or today), as the "right" to wear a tartan, except in a rather limited sense.

For instance, one could say that attending the West Point Academy gives one the "right" to wear the West Point tartan. This is certainly true in a sartorial sense, but not in a legal sense. I never attended West Point, and if I decided to wear that tartan, there is nothing to say that I cannot. But some people might object to a non-alumn wearing it, and it certainly would not have the same meaning for me.

The Prince Charles Edward Stuart tartan is a tartan named for this famous historic individual, and so is not quite the same as a clan, family, district, or school tartan. No one is going to question your wearing of this tartan, if you feel that you have some connection there. Prince Charlie spent a good bit of his life in Rome, returned there after Culloden, and is indeed buried there. For this reason, the Prince Charles Edward Stewart tartan is reccomended for those of Italian descent in many editions (perhaps all?) of the Tartan For Me! reference by Philip D. Smith, in the section reccomending tartans for those of various nationalities. That reccomendation is echoed in my own Compendium of District Tartans, which I co-authored with James A. Bullman.

By the way, here is the Prince Charles Edward Stewart tartan:


Compare to the Royal Stewart. The main difference is the Royal Stewart has a much larger area of red.


The Prince Charles Edward Stewart tartan is, in fact, an older version of the Royal Stewart tartan.

Today, there are a few other tartans that have been developed with Italian connections, or for Italian regions.

There is an "Italian" tartan, designed in 1999 to recognize those Scots of Italian descent (a lot of Italians relocated to Scotland after WWII). There is a "McPrato" tartan designed in 2003 for the Tuscan town of Prato (and based on the Royal Stewart tartan). There is the "City of Rome" tartan that Todd already mentioned, designed for and worn by the City of Rome Pipe Band. Lastly, there is also a tartan for the city of Florence, designed in 2005.

[sharpdressedscot]

Random thought: I was thinking when I first saw the Roman Tartan, I thought it would be purple or a scarlet like the colors of the emperors or something... just a thought.


If I were to choose between Stewart and the Prince Charlie, I'd definitely go with the Stewart, I think it looks bettter.

[Ancienne Alliance]

Matter of taste really, I prefer The PCES.
Ma que bello tantan veramente, no ?

[Xabaras]

This is a really exhaustive answer (especially about the historic period and the tartan "name"). For my first tartan I believe I make no harms to wear the "Royal" instead of the "Prince Charles". Let see what I can do (and buy) in the future.

Thanks Again Matthew (Mattia in Italy, I believe).