wearing other family tartan rather than your own

[Mike_Oettle]

Picking up on something else that Jock Scot wrote, concerning the Atholl Highlanders: “. . . interestingly they make a large ‘thing’ about obtaining permission to wear the Murray tartan from the Duke of Atholl.”

The Murrays of Atholl were involved in founding the Transvaal Highlanders (raised in Johannesburg in the aftermath of the Boer War), and that regiment still wears the same tartan.
Three sons of the then Duke served in South Africa, and I believe they also all settled in this country after the war.
The present Duke is descended from one of them, and is resident in Limpopo Province, in a quaint little town (originally a 19th-century mining village) called Haenertsburg.

I believe I also saw a mention of the Hunting Stewart being worn with permission. The Pretoria Highlanders (formed immediately before the Second World War) wear that tartan as well (with permission).
Regards,
Mike

[macwilkin]

Picking up on something else that Jock Scot wrote, concerning the Atholl Highlanders: “. . . interestingly they make a large ‘thing’ about obtaining permission to wear the Murray tartan from the Duke of Atholl.”

The Murrays of Atholl were involved in founding the Transvaal Highlanders (raised in Johannesburg in the aftermath of the Boer War), and that regiment still wears the same tartan.
Three sons of the then Duke served in South Africa, and I believe they also all settled in this country after the war.
The present Duke is descended from one of them, and is resident in Limpopo Province, in a quaint little town (originally a 19th-century mining village) called Haenertsburg.

I believe I also saw a mention of the Hunting Stewart being worn with permission. The Pretoria Highlanders (formed immediately before the Second World War) wear that tartan as well (with permission).
Regards,
Mike

Further the comments about the Atholl Highlanders Pipe Band in the USA: many pipe bands wear specific clan tartans with the permission of the Clan Chief as a way to honour past members. For example, the Buchan Pipe Band in Scotland wears the Cumming Hunting/Buchan District tartan with the blessing of our Chief, Sir Alistair Cumming Bt., and performs for him on a fairly regular basis.

T.

[davidlpope]

Now it would be unfair and wrong to interpret remarks in the reply without clarification, but in buoying Jock's comments about not wearing the tartan of clan with whom you have not affiliation, I was left wondering if it is presumed that in the Highlands you have some clan affiliation?? In which case there would be a least one clan tartan you could claim.

I'm sure Jock will chime in, but my understanding (based on feedback from Highlanders on this board and other Scots) is that yes, wearing a clan tartan in the Highlands will create the inference that you are connected to that clan. My understanding, though, is that no one would be so rude as to actually inquire as to what your particular connection is to that clan... Is commenting publicly on another's clothing one of those things that is "just not done", Jock?

Cordially,

David

[Jock Scot]

I'm sure Jock will chime in, but my understanding (based on feedback from Highlanders on this board and other Scots) is that yes, wearing a clan tartan in the Highlands will create the inference that you are connected to that clan. My understanding, though, is that no one would be so rude as to actually inquire as to what your particular connection is to that clan... Is commenting publicly on another's clothing one of those things that is "just not done", Jock?

Cordially,

David

Absolutely! No one would be so rude to make unflattering comments in public about one's attire. Flattering comments perhaps, in a quiet moment would be fine.The "its just not done old boy" comment is reserved for very good friends to point out the error of one's ways in a quiet moment, well away from listening ears. To receive a comment like that in public would be regarded as distinctly unfriendly.

Yes indeed it is assumed that the one tartan that we wear is "ours". To question that would not even cross our minds. The wearing of two, or more, tartans of different clans(not at the very same time!) would most certainly raise an eyebrow and would cause the "poser" comment under the breath. If you were say, a MacLeod, it would just not be understood by one and all if a tartan of another clan was worn.

It would be quite acceptable, however, to wear your regimental tartan when retired from the army and it would be quite acceptable to wear your pipe band tartan too. Not that many of us know about district tartans, but I suppose that would be thought as alright once word had got round in twenty years or so, although it would most certainly thought of as extravagant and thus, unnecessary.

[Catdad]

If there's no tartans you are comfortable wearing, there's always the German Heritage or German American tartans!

As a person of German heritage, I proudly wear my German Heritage kilt (you did a great job when you designed it Rocky) and when people ask if that's my family tartan, I answer "In a way it is" and then go on to explain.

[Mike_Oettle]

Being of German descent, I took a fair amount of interest in the various “German” setts that have been registered.
However, I regard the German American, German National and German Heritage tartans as being American. I quite like the German tartan (in the colours of Germany’s flag), but I am unsure whether I will ever wear it. I am also undecided about the Coburg tartan, which in the past was held to be appropriate to Germany.
At the same time, I would not look askance at these tartans being worn by others. If you don’t have a Scottish tartan to claim, one appropriate to another country will be fine.
Regards,
Mike

[seanachie]

Absolutely! No one would be so rude to make unflattering comments in public about one's attire. Flattering comments perhaps, in a quiet moment would be fine.The "its just not done old boy" comment is reserved for very good friends to point out the error of one's ways in a quiet moment, well away from listening ears. To receive a comment like that in public would be regarded as distinctly unfriendly.

Yes indeed it is assumed that the one tartan that we wear is "ours". To question that would not even cross our minds. The wearing of two, or more, tartans of different clans(not at the very same time!) would most certainly raise an eyebrow and would cause the "poser" comment under the breath. If you were say, a MacLeod, it would just not be understood by one and all if a tartan of another clan was worn.

It would be quite acceptable, however, to wear your regimental tartan when retired from the army and it would be quite acceptable to wear your pipe band tartan too. Not that many of us know about district tartans, but I suppose that would be thought as alright once word had got round in twenty years or so, although it would most certainly thought of as extravagant and thus, unnecessary.

Jock:
You well answered part of my question, and perhaps I did not word things well to make another part of it clear. Is it presumed that if you live in the Highlands and and not a newly landed immigrant, that you have some association with at least one clan? That would make a situation where it would be much more understanding that you would only wear one clan tartan, and wearing a tartan of a clan that you are not affiliated with would seem odd. Because after all you do have a tartan to lay claim to. That would be a very different situation in other parts of the world. As for the poser part I certainly would never pass myself off as having an affiliation that doesn't exist and readily admit I wear the tartan because I admire it. Thanks for the feedback.

[Jock Scot]

Jock:
You well answered part of my question, and perhaps I did not word things well to make another part of it clear. Is it presumed that if you live in the Highlands and and not a newly landed immigrant, that you have some association with at least one clan? That would make a situation where it would be much more understanding that you would only wear one clan tartan, and wearing a tartan of a clan that you are not affiliated with would seem odd. Because after all you do have a tartan to lay claim to. That would be a very different situation in other parts of the world. As for the poser part I certainly would never pass myself off as having an affiliation that doesn't exist and readily admit I wear the tartan because I admire it. Thanks for the feedback.

I am now entering a place that I really struggle with and I don't believe I am alone up here in the Highlands.

I am being really honest here. I don't like people with no connection to a clan wearing clan tartans, I don't like people wearing several different tartans of several different clans, I don't like people wearing clan tartans whilst not giving a damn about them and I don't like people from outwith Scotland who care little about our culture and just regard the tartan kilt as a way to show off for personal satisfaction.

Now I realise full well that I can do little about it and when all said and done we are not going to war over it! Could I change the situation? No I can't. Would I want to? Yes I would, if it were possible and it isn't!

What I do respect highly, are those that are sympathetic to my Country's culture and take the trouble to find out at least a little bit about it. I do respect those that try to fit in with our traditions in spite of having little or no connection to Scotland. I do respect those with Scots roots that want to maintain a connection. And last and most certainly not least, I have huge regard for those outwith Scotland that wear their National, State, University, Service etc. tartans as kilts, instead of Scots Clan tartans.

I don't think that many of you will be too surprised by my comments, but I hope beyond hope that you will forgive this Highland Scot for his honesty.

[Mike_Oettle]

Jock Scot wrote: “. . . I hope beyond hope that you will forgive this Highland Scot for his honesty.”

Straight talking is always best. I like an honest opinion, and I do feel that the tartan that is worn ought to be appropriate in one way or another.
Regards,
Mike

[tripleblessed]

In migrating or being transported to the colonies, Scots were thrown together with people of clans they would never have met had they stayed in Scotland.
They settled where there were other Scots because they were familiar, even if
of a clan with a feud with one's own. The resulting intermarriages give many of us far more clan connections than we would have had they stayed in Scotland.

I, like many others, can clearly see in my family how firmly those roots have shaped who we are and how we conduct ourselves in the world. I wish to honor my antecedents, all of them, from all corners of Scotland. As well, the last Scottish immigrant in my family was here in time to enjoy Washington's inauguration. This span of time compounded the number of connections. Most are about equally connected to me, without a clear "this is my clan". There has never been any wannabe or poser element to anything I have or ever will do in this regard.

I'm old enough to (finally) have made a couple of realizations about behavior
I might have been rumored to be involved in the past. One is that having
good judgment is a good thing, having a judgmental attitude is probably not only inappropriate, but over the long haul, likely detrimental to one's health.
I might be amused by someone's over-exuberance and lack of information,
but I enjoy their enjoyment and let be.

I know some would say I'm too far removed to claim a clan connection, but it has never felt that way to me. I have no quarrel with the right of others to have a differing opinion, and I'd always rather have open, honest, direct discussion. If we all agreed all the time, I think I'd be rather bored. Thanks for encouraging me to think.