Is Tweed Acceptably Traditional?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Kyle,

That Hunting MacPherson Harris Tweed was woven with an extremely large sett. If I remember correctly it was something like 12" or more. That's why the pleats look so huge. It's been a long time since I made that kilt, but I'm pretty sure it only had 6 pleats.

One of the (many) beneficial aspects of having cloth woven to order is that you get some say in the sett size. So if you want a Hunting MacPherson with a 12" repeat, you can get it. On the other hand, something between 7" and 9" is usually more manageable for kilt making.

As for the weight of the tweed, all the Harris Tweed kilts I have made (with one exception) have been what the HT folks call "light weight," however I can attest it is plenty heavy enough to make a good kilt. Even though all my Harris Tweed kilts are either 4 or 5 yards, I tend to rarely wear them in the summer months. They get lots of wear in the fall and winter!

The exception is a kilt I own made from old Marion Campbell woven cloth, which is nearly bullet proof. It is easily twice as thick, and twice as dense, as the modern Harris Tweed I get. That one is a four yard box pleated kilt and I really only get to wear it in the dead of winter. It's just too warm otherwise!

[ThistleDown]

I don't wish to side-track this very fine discussion, but may I just remind everyone that the two most prominent "discussers" are our two most prominent authorities on just this subject: XMarks Honour Roll Member Matthew Newsome of the Tartans Museum in North Carolina, and XMarks Honour Roll Member Peter Eslea Macdonald of the Scottish Tartans Authority in Scotland.

Thank you both, gentlemen, for contributing so much of your knowledge to this forum.

[seanachie]

Thank you both, gentlemen, for contributing so much of your knowledge to this forum.

I have gained a lot more than I anticipated from my original post.
Very informative discussion.

[creagdhubh]

I don't wish to side-track this very fine discussion, but may I just remind everyone that the two most prominent "discussers" are our two most prominent authorities on just this subject: XMarks Honour Roll Member Matthew Newsome of the Tartans Museum in North Carolina, and XMarks Honour Roll Member Peter Eslea Macdonald of the Scottish Tartans Authority in Scotland.

Thank you both, gentlemen, for contributing so much of your knowledge to this forum.

Agreed! Thank you to both gentlemen mentioned!!!

Cordially,

[seanachie]

With my non Scot background, the tweed we had at home and knew about comes from Donegal. Harris and other tweeds I have learned about here.
So I was in a discussion with John Hart of Keltoi, who has Donegal roots, and he told me that Donegal tweed is typically only available in 11 or 13 oz. weight.
From the great inputs here it seems that Scottish tweed is often 16 oz or heavier. I mention that because anyone interested in a tweed kilt might find the heavier tweed more to their liking for a kilt.

To be frank, too, I started to develop an interest in a tweed kilt from this thread but was worried about affordability. John also shared with me that Marton Mills offers the Cheviot range of tweeds that is comparable to their Jura tartan line.

[ThistleDown]

A bit further to the OP's question "is tweed traditional as kilt fabric", there is the mid-19C drawing of John Brown, of course, but no verification that that drawing was a true portrayal and not just a sitter's, commissioner's or artist's license.

We do, however, have five-generations-old official photos of The Mackintosh welcoming HM King George V, and the Prime Minister Lloyd George, to Moy Hall in September 1921. The Mackintosh was wearing a tweed kilt with matching jacket and waistcoat -- a Highland suit. That seems to give some sort of right to a claim of tweed tradition and acceptance to at least some level of "matching".

Peter I know you prefer to think in terms of 18C, but you may have a youthful memory of Captain Stuart Davidson's oft-worn tweed kilt in the 1960s (?) and 1970s to which he had added a watch pocket inside the left waist band, a key pocket inside the right band, and an under-apron pocket accessed from the right (proving that nothing is new under the sun).

If we accept the Brown portrait, do The Mackintosh and Captain Davidson adequately provide 150 years of "traditional" tweed kilt bridges to today?

[figheadair]

A bit further to the OP's question "is tweed traditional as kilt fabric", there is the mid-19C drawing of John Brown, of course, but no verification that that drawing was a true portrayal and not just a sitter's, commissioner's or artist's license.

We do, however, have five-generations-old official photos of The Mackintosh welcoming HM King George V, and the Prime Minister Lloyd George, to Moy Hall in September 1921. The Mackintosh was wearing a tweed kilt with matching jacket and waistcoat -- a Highland suit. That seems to give some sort of right to a claim of tweed tradition and acceptance to at least some level of "matching".

Peter I know you prefer to think in terms of 18C, but you may have a youthful memory of Captain Stuart Davidson's oft-worn tweed kilt in the 1960s (?) and 1970s to which he had added a watch pocket inside the left waist band, a key pocket inside the right band, and an under-apron pocket accessed from the right (proving that nothing is new under the sun).

If we accept the Brown portrait, do The Mackintosh and Captain Davidson adequately provide 150 years of "traditional" tweed kilt bridges to today?

Absolutely Rex. What I'm not sure about is how common matching outfits were before c1890-1900. Landeer's hunting portraits tend to show Ghillies in tweed kilt and shirt or non-tweed jacket.

[creagdhubh]

A bit further to the OP's question "is tweed traditional as kilt fabric", there is the mid-19C drawing of John Brown, of course, but no verification that that drawing was a true portrayal and not just a sitter's, commissioner's or artist's license.

We do, however, have five-generations-old official photos of The Mackintosh welcoming HM King George V, and the Prime Minister Lloyd George, to Moy Hall in September 1921. The Mackintosh was wearing a tweed kilt with matching jacket and waistcoat -- a Highland suit. That seems to give some sort of right to a claim of tweed tradition and acceptance to at least some level of "matching".

Peter I know you prefer to think in terms of 18C, but you may have a youthful memory of Captain Stuart Davidson's oft-worn tweed kilt in the 1960s (?) and 1970s to which he had added a watch pocket inside the left waist band, a key pocket inside the right band, and an under-apron pocket accessed from the right (proving that nothing is new under the sun).

If we accept the Brown portrait, do The Mackintosh and Captain Davidson adequately provide 150 years of "traditional" tweed kilt bridges to today?

Wonderful and rather intriguing point(s) Rex, to be well received indeed. Interesting.

Cordially,

[OC Richard]

I've always found this image interesting, Queen Victoria landing at Loch Muick in 1852.



BTW hose with a pattern very much like that (but without the castellated cuffs) appear in The Highlanders of Scotland.