The Scots Who Left

[Jock Scot]

Well, particularly as it was my Grandma's name!

AH.

[MacSpadger]

Alistair Cooke, the BBC's former US correspondent, reported this conversation between an American and a British diplomat:

- Do you know Lord xxx by any chance?
- Yes, known him all my life. He was my fag at Eton
- Well! I'll say this for you British. You certainly are frank

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

This is certainly a rollicking discussion,images of barefooted Scots descendants howling the rebel yell competing with the hilariously named fanny pack,whilst we swap oddities of language!Yet it all ties to the subject of the Scots who left,and the sometimes large gaps of perceptions between thier descendants and present day Scots.Allow me to weigh in....

Never before I came to this forum had I heard tartan refered to as plaid.I always understood A plaid to be something a lowland Scot may throw over his shoulder in the more outdoorsy,agricultural past,or the large plaid now called belted plaid of the highlands,or offspring of both,the shoulder plaids of the full highland dress pipe bands etc.

This forum has entertained me with talk of toories,which I always have known as pom poms.

I often,growing up,used to wonder at the whole idea of the Irish kilt.Is the kilt Irish as well? I would ask my family.No it's not,I was told.It's interesting how the mind can work,but I saw the choice of safron colour for the 'Irish kilt'as a sort of nod to the fact that it was not Scottish,sort of like saying
"o.k,we know we are pushing it to jump in on the Scottish bandwagon here,but how about as a pay off,we at least stay away from tartans"

These views of the whole 'irish kilt' idea were spawned by my families Scottish views,and when I read the most interesting article on the 'Irish kilt' to be found on this forum,it only served to underline my views.Yet the whole idea that the kilt is also connected to Ireland,and now,that the tartan is also,though historicly completely incorrect,seems to be surging on,full steam ahead!

When I was younger,and there was still many Scots and Irish to be found in the various industries,it was well known that to mistake a Scot for an Irishman,or vice versa,was a faux pa to be avoided!

[Joshua]

After working for an English company for several years, I made the mistake of telling half a dozen Northen English coworkers that "I need a nap" on a conference call, after several minutes of belly ache laughs from anyone on the call from the otherside of the pond, the response "Wots wrong Joshwar, not toilet trained yet?"

Learning later that a "nap" was slang for a baby wipe or diaper, i.e. "nappy".

[Dale Seago]

Never before I came to this forum had I heard tartan refered to as plaid.I always understood A plaid to be something a lowland Scot may throw over his shoulder in the more outdoorsy,agricultural past,or the large plaid now called belted plaid of the highlands,or offspring of both,the shoulder plaids of the full highland dress pipe bands etc.

There's something interesting about that in a footnote to one of the chapters in Part II of George MacDonald Fraser's The Steel Bonnets having to due with the use of tartan in the Lowlands and Borders. Not sure exactly when the quote (I just did a search and found it, my actual book copy is at home) is from, but it's late 1500s to early 1600s:

The lower sort of citizen's wives and the women of the country wore cloaks made of a coarse stuff of two or three colors in checker work vulgarly called pladden.

That's the last sentence of Footnote 28 on this page: http://books.google.com/books?id=yYW...page&q&f=false

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Thank you Dale Seago!
I will chase that up.With Hay and Anderson in my background as well as more northerly family names,I'm definately interested.Appreciate it.

[Gael Ridire]

AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH , I understand your view on the Irish kilt, but my experience at games is that the Irish diaspora have no problem with it. Granted most don't know the history of how the Irish kilt came about. But "what's the beef about?," The kilt is the international symbol of being Gaelic/Celtic. All cultures recognize it. How wonderful that the Scottish Highland garment is that symbol! To differentiate between Scot and Irish, the Irish Gaelic League voted to make the kilt be of one color, cool. Doesn't look as nice as tartan, but cool! Fast forward a hundred years or so to today, and tartan setts are being designed for the Irish, Cornish, & Welsh too, not to name a host of other ethnic groups. Just recently on an Irish blog I read of folks wanting to know what their clan tartan was. Another I read said that he wished his Irish clan would pick a color and he didn't care if it was "hot pink." For me, I'd rather have a newly designed tartan. Granted, the history of the kilt belongs to the Highlanders, which should never be forgotten, but I like that the kilt represents the Gael/Celt today and hopefully it will into the future!

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Gael Ridire,

The Irish diaspora have no problem with it?How good of them!
Merely pointing out that to try to connect the kilt and tartans to Irish history and culture is a kid on.