Could we chat about "brogues" a bit please?

[AKScott]

I think part of my confusion is UK english language versus USA english language, seperated by a common tongue as it were.

Standardising on wikipedia.usa. Excuse, standardizing on wikipedia.usa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brogue_shoe


A "full brogue" or American "wingtip" has a piece of leather over the toes that reaches back past the arch of the foot and features perforations.

A "half brogue" has a piece of leather over the toes that is a mere toe cap but is perforated in the half brogues.

Finally the "quarter brogue", just like a half brogue only with just one line of perforations at the edge of the toe cap.


I think contrasting leather colors (colours) turn "brogues" into "spectator shoes", and we can leave the tongueless lace pattern of ghilliie brogues at the wayside for now.


My specfic question is if I invest in a pair of quarter brogues, they will be quite formal for Fairbanks, but I wonder how far up the formality scale I can wear them in other places. I am not worried about white tie. Could I wear quarter brogues with black tie in say Vienna, Tokyo or umm, err, Edinburgh?


I could just as easily buy a pair of full brogues as quarter brogues, I'll have to buy them next time I am in Seattle either way. Either way, here in Fairbanks it will be a very formal shoe. The local problem is silt. I am surrounded by millions and millions of cubic meters of glacial silt, wee tiny particles just a few microns in diameter, and it is everywhere. Keeping all those little perforations cleaned of silt is going to be a monumental undertaking.

If you are coming to Fairbanks for black tie, bring your quarter brogues. When I am travelling from Fairbanks, how far can I go in scrupulously clean quarter brogues?

Thanks,
Scott

[Highland Logan]

My specfic question is if I invest in a pair of quarter brogues, they will be quite formal for Fairbanks, but I wonder how far up the formality scale I can wear them in other places. I am not worried about white tie. Could I wear quarter brogues with black tie in say Vienna, Tokyo or umm, err, Edinburgh?

You may get away with them in Alaska, but it would be a stretch to pull them off elsewhere, such as Vienna or Tokyo. Here is a link to The Black Tie Guide. Although not about Scottish Attire, it has may primer tips that translate over very well.

Frank

[Bugbear]

Got Silt?

I suggest highly pollished Oxfords; the kind with the laces and tongue inside and not visible. I have only read about these things, so for what it's worth...

[Chas]

I agree with Highland Logan.

When I was growing up (admittedly some years ago), it was brown in the country and black in the city. Tweed in the country and wool in the city. Likewise brogues in the country and Oxfords in the city.

Although I have both brown and black brogues and, of course, ghillie brogues, I would never take my wife out to dinner in less than Oxfords.

Regards

Chas

[Mikewood]

I think a nice pair of polished oxfords will take you most places.
If they have a touch of wax ie dull you can wear then much more casually. As for brogues I always found them to be a casual shoe.

[CMcG]

<snip>
My specfic question is if I invest in a pair of quarter brogues, they will be quite formal for Fairbanks, but I wonder how far up the formality scale I can wear them in other places. I am not worried about white tie. Could I wear quarter brogues with black tie in say Vienna, Tokyo or umm, err, Edinburgh?

As has been mentioned, a nicely shined pair of Oxfords seems to have the most versatility as a formal shoe. Court shoes or Opera pumps are more formal but you probably wouldn't wear them with anything but the most formal attire. I believe the general idea is for formal shoes to be elegant and graceful, with a sleek look.

Broguing tends to be considered less formal because it adds more visual weight to the shoes. From a traditional sartorial perspective, I think quarter brogues would get you up to around semi-formal: dress Argyll jacket with regular necktie for kilts or dark suit for p@ants.

Any of this depends on the crowd one runs with, of course, and the type of dress codes they embrace...

[Joshua]

Maybe there are some hard and fast rules regarding formality, but those are the rules I like to break. I like to wear brown leather formally - I've been told this is not proper... and I don't care. My formal shoes consist of cordovan oxfords or black leather monk strap loafers.

[Highland Logan]

Maybe there are some hard and fast rules regarding formality...

No maybes about it, there are.

...but those are the rules I like to break.

That's good for you, but the OP wanted advise on what was correct, not social commentary on fashion rebellion.

I've been told this is not proper... and I don't care.

I have found that people who don't care one way or the other are the last people to give advise, or listen to... You have no vested interest in the outcome, for yourself (social standing amongst peers based on knowledge/mentorship) or those whom you have given advise to (they look foolish in their social group for following ill received advice).

Granted this is just my advise.

Frank

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I have to chime in and say that I agree will all who have posted here, save the comments regarding brown shoes with formal wear...

What was it George Gobel used to say? Oh yes...

Do you ever feel sometimes like the world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes?

Highland Logan, Chas, Mikewood, and CMcG have offered the best (and 100% correct) advice you could possibly hope to receive.

[MacLowlife]

I might even agree a little bit with Josh. If you like to break the rules, you may as well do it in a good looking pair of shoes. But think about this for a moment: Generally speaking, the more formal an outfit, the sleeker it is. There is less fuzz about it. A pyramid of fabric formality would ordinarily have hairy skins, then maybe burlap, then tweed, then twill, then flannel, then barathea.

I know, I know, there are exceptions to this. I have a flannel tuxedo, but other than its retro charm, it looks less dressy than a barathea one. Denim is smoother than velvet, but look who won there. Sometimes we just have to accept things as they are.

You may well have some pretty sleek wingtips or quarter brogues, but they probably look clunky next to their plainer cousins. The thing about formal wear is that it is special. You can wear your cowboy boots with your tux, but they need to be special cowboy boots. Brogued shoes have risen over the years as they have become smoother and sleeker. Compare a pair of country trampers like these: http://www.pediwear.co.uk/sargent/products/85.php to

real city shoes like these


http://www.pediwear.co.uk/sargent/products/467.php

They are essentially the same shoe. But, then, when you look at something like this

http://www.pediwear.co.uk/sargent/products/482.php

isn't THAT the one you want if you are trying to look sleek and dressed up?


I believe Americans abroad, especially Americans from places the rest of the world knows to be in the woods ( Alaska, Maine, Texas, Wisconsin) can either play it one of two ways. Walk around in buckskins, like Audubon did, or get it absolutely right.

Having said all of this, I remember a Dewar's ad a few years ago that featured a crusty gent in his kilt, at least at Argyll formality, if not slightly higher. The idea was to honor tradition and deter innovation. On his feet were a pair of serious double soled black full brogues and he looked good.