Could we chat about "brogues" a bit please?

[Tobus]

Generally speaking, the more formal an outfit, the sleeker it is.

I suppose this is true, generally speaking. But it seems that Highland rules sometimes tend to veer from that path. Plain-colored hose for daywear, but diced/patterned hose for formal occasions. It seems really strange to my decidedly non-formal mind that one would put on fancy hose and then kill the effect with plain, boring, generic-looking shoes that look like they were made by someone with absolutely zero imagination.

While the plain black shoes you referenced might be appropriate, one has to ask: do they really "go" with Highland attire from an aesthetic perspective? Seems to me that buckle brogues are perfectly appropriate for even the highest levels of formality, and lend an air of class and style that those plain black shoes simply cannot.

[davidlpope]

Buy quarter brogues I take it that you mean perforated cap toes, like these:



I think that these are too casual to wear with a tuxedo, although you may get away with a pair of highly polished regular cap toes.

Here's my general advice re: shoes:

If you're looking for a pair of day shoes to wear with your kilt buy black full brogues.

If you're looking for a pair of evening shoes to wear with your kilt buy bar buckle brogues.

If you're looking for a pair of shoes to wear with a business suit buy black cap toe Balmorals.

If you're looking for a pair of shoes to wear with flannels and tweed jacket buy brown full brogues.

[AKScott]

Ok, excellent points all, let me reframe my conundrum.

I have a pair of brown lace up oxford style shoes. I have a pair of shiny black slipons.

I am looking for a pair of black lace up shoes to wear with my kilt; up to four in hand tie with a jacket but not with black tie. Is there anywhere I could go in wingtip style "full brogues" that I could not go just as easily in black laceup Oxfords or "quarter brogues"?

[davidlpope]

I am looking for a pair of black lace up shoes to wear with my kilt; up to four in hand tie with a jacket but not with black tie. Is there anywhere I could go in wingtip style "full brogues" that I could not go just as easily in black laceup Oxfords or "quarter brogues"?

No.

[MacLowlife]

Even though this appeared in the GENERAL KILT TALK forum, I somehow skipped over the implied "kilted" in the initial post. I was thinking more of Saxon formalwear. Please pardon my mistake.

I agree with Tobus- for kilted formalwear, the bar-buckle brogue is about as cool as it gets. I have never danced in them, though. If it is black tie and there will be dancing, I like pumps or formal slippers with the kilt, as discussed a while back.

Call me crezzy, but the farther I go from home, the less likely I am to appear in a kilt. The only way I would presume to appear kilted within the UK (especially dressed up and kilted ) would be if the event were specifically a kilted event.

As I derail this excellent thread, may I ask if I am the only weak-hearted member who feels this way?

[Downunder Kilt]

In Australia, kilted or not, black full brogues will be readily accepted into all places up to and including the Parliament of Australia for daywear.

[thescot]

Listen to David Pope. That's all the advice you need.

[AFS1970]

Reading this question and answers, I have one of my own that is sort of related.

I have a pair of black high gloss oxfords, however they are synthetic not leather. They are from a uniform I used to wear and are still in good condition. I wear them often with a suit, although I would like something a little less shiny.

I used to have a pair of Ghillie Brogues but no longer have them. I have been thinking of getting something a little nicer to wear with my kilt. I had thought of getting a pair of wing tips, which to me seemed a little more formal, but I guess I was mistaken on that. I was basing this opinion on the fact that ghillie brogues are really only seen with formal wear when kilted.

So have I been misguided on my approach that a good pair of wingtips will serve both functions?

[davidlpope]

Reading this question and answers, I have one of my own that is sort of related.

I have a pair of black high gloss oxfords, however they are synthetic not leather. They are from a uniform I used to wear and are still in good condition. I wear them often with a suit, although I would like something a little less shiny.

I used to have a pair of Ghillie Brogues but no longer have them. I have been thinking of getting something a little nicer to wear with my kilt. I had thought of getting a pair of wing tips, which to me seemed a little more formal, but I guess I was mistaken on that. I was basing this opinion on the fact that ghillie brogues are really only seen with formal wear when kilted.

So have I been misguided on my approach that a good pair of wingtips will serve both functions?

Black full brogues (wingtips) are a sure bet when it comes to wearing a kilt in the daytime. You can't go wrong with them.

Here in the South one also sees many men wearing black full brogues with their business suits. This practice, along with the wearing of button-down collared shirts with suit and tie, seems to be an example of a rule more honored in the breach than the observance. Historically, full brogues (wingtips) were country shoes and button-down collars originated as a more casual shirt to be worn while playing polo, so neither are really "appropriate" for wearing for city business.

That being said, most people will neither notice nor care and there are legions of bankers and lawyers for whom this is a daily uniform. Given a choice between Corframs and well-polished black real-leather wingtips, I'd go with the wingtips, hands-down. If anyone asks, just act as if that's the way "Mummy and Daddy" dressed you before they shipped you off to Woodberry...

Cordially,

David

[thescot]

Full brogue wingtips have always been considered appropriate footwear for business dress where I come from. By that, I mean the "brogue wingtip" that has the serated part run all the way back to the heel with oversized soles.

The dressier half wingtip was also considered quite fine, maybe a little dressier since the soles were not so oversized. The captoe was another very fine dress shoe, andone that is also quite fine for the day wear kilt.

However, for very dressy evening wear, your corfams will probably be fine. They go well with a tux or a PX with kilt. For really dressup (in a kilt), buckle brogues or even patent leather pumps would be the choice. Unfortunately, we rarely dress these days in the US, so that last may be information you'll never need.