Another attemped power grab by Microsoft

[brewerpaul]

This whole issue is a large pandora's box that occasionally gets opened. I started using Linux because it did give me the power to run my PC=personal computer. There are many people who never want to get under the hood and play with nix much less mess with a command line. Now Ubuntu is about as easy to put on as a pair of underpants under your kilt. Most kilt wearers know they dont belong there just as the know Nix is not for them. I keep an XP box for some scanners and other proprietary hardware just as many Nix user do. It isnt that Microsoft(Bill Gates) or Mac(Jobs) are evil. They are just trying in any way possible to corner markets and crush competition. This hasnt always been done in ethical ways but profit and money makes for less than ethical ways. We also have to look at the gaming industry and hardware that pushes faster bigger pcs than most people need. Are they evil, no just profit driven too. Then the other side is the hackers that feel they have to break everything. Some do a good job exposing flaws in an OS yet some are actually just trying to break MS and Mac. This leads to exploits useable by less than nice people or companies that hack your box. The evil I think seen in Micrsoft is the control they want over your personal computer. Mac is really the same in that issue. People see that control as invasion of their personal rights. So people do have choices, use profit driven companies, not use a computer or get under the hood occasionally and roll your own.

[Joshua]

Don't be fooled. I worked for apple for 12 years, so I speak from extreme knowledge on this. Apple is probably the WORST at software restriction on all their devices. Even hardware. Ever heard of "Jailbreaking" related to any other products other than Apple?

You mean like the hacked firmware that I was loading on my blackberry and winmo phones in 2007, or my currently rooted android phone, or my psp that has been hacked to run the MAME arcade emulator? My dreamcast from 2000 that ran a Linux Web server? Jail breaking is nothing new, just a new name for it.

Reverse engineering to add functionality and just for the cool factor will always exist. It's fun to use things for purposes other than intended, more so if you are told you can't.

To the op - I am a gpl guy. But, in addition to the 4-5 Linux boxes and appliances in my home I also have some closed machines. Professionally, I manage client security (encryption, antivirus, local firewall, data forensics) for some 5300 windows machines. Frankly, I welcome additional security from Microsoft (especially their boot routine, as win7 is still quite vulnerable to local SAM attacks, something that has been around since NT 4).

[Joshua]

Sorry about a second post, but I find the idea of MS or Apple closing their models to stifle competition a bit "tin foil hat".

In fact the issue in the OP isn't about an initiative with Microsoft, but an issue with UEFI, a standard that all modern PC's and Macs have had for years... And UEFI isn't a Microsoft standard...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified...ware_Interface

Apple has had a very closed model since Jobs returned, and his intent was clear... To have full control of the user experience (and Macs are some of the most reliable computers that this old engineer has ever used for this reason) . This is why I tell people that my MacBook and iPad are my "appliances", they work when I need them to... That was Job's vision and I think his legacy proves that.

MS is now working on the failings of its past, against piracy, and improving security. When windows activation was announced prior to windows XP, everyone minced and much FUD followed... So, 10 years later, has anyone been "oppressed" besides software pirates who could no longer generate their own product keys? (btw, fun old trick with window 95, you could make your own product key by making each octet of the serial number a modulus of seven... Same rule for office 97... Heh).

[thescot]

Without Microsoft, we'd still be using pencils.

Apple is much cooler, but they are also much worse about proprietary protectionism. The real difference is that Microsoft has a pretty open architecture and has done a better job of selling their stuff.

[Chas]

Truth be told, I have not understood most of this thread. So can someone tell me which programmes are being blocked by Microsoft, please?

Regards

Chas

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Chas, you have to watch out when you get caught in a conversation with techies!

What we are discussing is something that is not implemented yet, but proposed for Windows 8. At a simple level, Microsoft is pushing to have hardware vendors (Dell, HP, Lenove, etc.) include a security check at the hardware level that would prevent you from booting any operating system that was not "signed" as authentic and unchanged by a virus/malware/etc.. That potentially means that you would not be able to install an alternative operating system on a PC that was purchased with this security check installed. Based on my quick scan of the article, there still a number of questions on how this would be implemented and whether it would be possible to boot Windows, then tell the hardware/firmware that a specific operating system is also trusted and allow it to boot.

While I would hate to see this implemented in the way that it is worded, I would also hope that the hardware manufacturers would make this something that can be disabled in the BIOS. I would also wonder if this would pass a legal review? An analogy would be like me buying a car and the car manufacturer telling me I can't take the stock engine out and put in a different one.

[artificer]

MS is free to do as they like. My primary problem with them is just HOW BLOODY BAD they are at it.

When they introduced "verified" software in their FORCED updates, it promptly told me that programs I'd been using for several years were not authentic.

If you're going to be draconian about your product, you first have to make sure that what you're doing doesn't harm the usability of said product. MS has been guilty of this for so long it's a joke.

Say what you like about Apple. Installing a scanner doesn't screw up your email, deleting a browser doesn't damage the OS, and let's face it, Apple is just more fun than MS. ;)

ith:

[Chas]

Thanks - makes a lot of sense now.

Regards

Chas

[Joshua]

The feature in question, however, is a feature that Apple has used for a few years with OSX, yet I am still able to boot other Operating Systems on my MacBook.

Again, it's just FUD* at this point.



*Fear, Uncertianty, and Doubt

[Coinneach]

Unfortunately, I have to use a Windows PC/laptop of some kind to do my work. The last laptop I bought had Windows XP specifically so I could avoid Windows Vista. Now it seems I'll have to buy a Windows 7 computer to avoid Windows 8. Pretty soon, I may have to avoid working...oh wait...