Whatever has happened to manners

[Jock Scot]

And THAT, my friend Jock Scot, is precisely why you are a charming OLD MAN.

Relax.

I say, steady on!

I KNOW I am an OLD MAN! But there is no need to labour the point!

[LANCER1562]

Common courtesy and common sense; two things that, sadly, are not as common as they used to be. The current generation learns from the generation before it, which in turn learned from the previous generation however, from what I've seen of the current generation, those teachings seem to have skipped a generation.

[Alan H]

I say, steady on!

I KNOW I am an OLD MAN! But there is no need to labour the point!

I am working hard on this old man thing. I bet I'll get it right in another ten years or so....

[Jock Scot]

I am working hard on this old man thing. I bet I'll get it right in another ten years or so....

This age thing was brought home to me when my 16 year old step daughter-----bless her------thought that our 30 year old postman was old. She must think that I am Methuselah's elder brother!

I think it is quite understandable that each generation finds it own set of standards of behaviour, in spite of my parents dire predictions my generation did, my sons' generation has, and there is no doubt that my step children are doing so, but in the end I do think that most of them---not all by any means----end up being fairly civil to others, eventually!

[Geoff Withnell]

I have been watching this discussion with some interest. While I was raised to offer my seat to a lady, I understand that with gender equality, some may feel that is no longer appropriate. Still, I believe the young women of today can go a long way to help create a more modern, but none the less thoughtful courtesy. An example:

I was riding home on the Metro (Washington DC's subway system) during rush hour, and as usual, there were no seats. There are seats which are supposed to be yielded to elderly or handicapped persons, near the door of each car. I am, by calender, old enough to request such a seat, but since my legs work just fine, I don't. The day in question, a young couple, obviously on an outing together, were in the special seats. Not a problem, at least at first, there was no one who appeared to need them at hand. At one stop, an elder women got on. She was walking with the aid on a rather substantial orthopedic cane (the ones with four feet on the bottom) and appeared to be in some discomfort. After a brief interval, I addressed the young man. "Sir, You may not have noticed, but I believe the lady really needs that reserved seat you are in." He looked up. told me to perform and anatomical impossiblility, and turned back to his lady friend. She demonstrated that SHE was in fact a lady, albeit not with a gentleman. She stood, said "You can have my seat." to the older woman, and moved some distance away. The young man jumped up and followed her. She turned her back on him, "cutting him dead".
If more young ladies insisted that their male friends be gentlemen, I believe the problem would solve itself.

[Jack Daw]

I believe in exercising manners, certainly. But, I might add that I was tripped up by them once. I was visiting a friend at a hotel once that was also hosting a women's conference for something I don't recall. I was at the elevator when one of the sessions in a close-by ballroom let out. All these ladies headed for the elevator bank where I was waiting. Certainly, a couple of elevators arrived and I politely let both elevators fill up to leave me and still several ladies behind. Then, before the next elevator opened, another group of ladies came up, and I let them on when the next elevator arrived. Finally, another elevator arrived, and still I let another group of ladies on. I finally gave up and walked up several flights to get where I was going. Great exercise, stair-climbing!

[creagdhubh]

Lyle1.

I quite understand your sister-in-law's predicament, but I would like to think that a gentleman would offer his seat nonetheless and there is nothing to say that the offer HAS to be accepted-----and if the lady so wishes, the kind gesture is declined, graciously.

Precisely. I couldn't have said it better, Jock.

[creagdhubh]

I say, steady on!

I KNOW I am an OLD MAN! But there is no need to labour the point!

Hahaha!!!

[Lyle1]

Common courtesy and common sense; two things that, sadly, are not as common as they used to be. The current generation learns from the generation before it, which in turn learned from the previous generation however, from what I've seen of the current generation, those teachings seem to have skipped a generation.

Well, it was easier in previous generations! Most everyone grew up with a firm knowledge of their place in the social scheme of things. They knew their place, meaning that they knew who was better than they were and who was lower on the scale than they were. Unfortunately, manners went one way; you definitely observed the conventions when dealing with your social superiors, and probably with your equals. Those who were considered lower than yourself paid deference to you.

Many of us grew up being told by older generations that in America everyone was equal and that gentlemen gave up their seats for ladies. Then we saw the reality. Gentlemen did give up their seats to women of their own social class and race, and were considered boorish if they did not. However, a black women could be jailed for refusing to give up her seat on a bus to a white man when ordered to do so, and many "well mannered" people defended that action and, further, said protesters were uppity. How many times during the 1960's did I here that "some of them are OK because they "know their place", which really meant, did not try to sit beside their betters or exercise their constitutional rights. Much of what I was taught stuck with me, but not because of the example of the people who were teaching me. It stuck because I recognized that what they said about how to treat others was a good way to live, even if they did not really live that way themselves.

After WWI, the social order changed drastically in Europe as thousands of young men from the lower orders returned from the trenches and refused to honor the old social rules that meant that they tipped their hats to their social betters and did not quite make eye contact with them unless spoken to directly. I think the same thing happened in the USA after WWII and continues today.

So, do we follow the example of previous generations? I personally hope that we do not, but I also hope that we have the wisdom to retain what was good about the customs and practices of previous generations.

I really tried to stay out of this discussion, but I succumbed to the temptation. I did not mean to offend, though clearly I did. I was going to apologize, but I think that would be an inappropriate thing to do. Maybe at least one person who reads this tread will stop to think about the intent of manners rather than being proud of the rote performance of what he was told was the correct way to act.

[Chas]

Well said, Lyle. Well said.

Regards

Chas