Help identify this clan crest

**Tim Little** · 9th November 11, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

I have checked a complete, visual listing of all the clan badges that APS currently has in production, and this particular badge is not amongst the collection, however, judging by how the badge looks, it is most definitely made by APS. I am definitely perplexed, and very interested to figure out the provenance of the crest and motto!

Cheers,

Do you think APS would respond to an inquiry? Do they make "one-off" items?

**Tim Little** · 9th November 11, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Eck

Hi everyone who has shown an interest and puzzled like me, thanks for your input.
Kyle, you have given me an idea. As it is very similar to an AP product and indeed may have been manufactured by them, I have emailed the company and asked if they can help identify the badge. Lets hope they can solve the mystery.
Will update once I get a response
Regards
Eck (Alex)

Ah, Eck's already on the case!

**creagdhubh** · 10th November 11, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Eck

Hi everyone who has shown an interest and puzzled like me, thanks for your input.
Kyle, you have given me an idea. As it is very similar to an AP product and indeed may have been manufactured by them, I have emailed the company and asked if they can help identify the badge. Lets hope they can solve the mystery.
Will update once I get a response
Regards
Eck (Alex)

Excellent idea, Alex, well done. APS, the company itself, is actually located in East Kilbride, where you hail from...how ironic! Perhaps you could take a bit of a stroll down to the APS manufacturing plant?!

Just kidding, mate!

Cheers,

**creagdhubh** · 10th November 11, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tim Little

Do you think APS would respond to an inquiry? Do they make "one-off" items?

Yes, I think APS would respond. I have never heard of them making bespoke clan badges, but you never know. Alex's findings will be very interesting, I am sure.

Cheers,

**SlackerDrummer** · 10th November 11, 12:54 PM

Fairbairn's Book of Crests of the Families of Great Britain and Ireland lists the following names as using the motto "Per mare, per terras" - which is the Latin equivalent.

Alexander, Courtayne, Darley, Drummond, Dupre, Durham, Lamb, Macalister, M'Alister, Macdonald, M'Donald, Madconnell, M'Eachern, M'Eachran, Macelester, Piessf, Rutherford, Rutherfurd, Urquhart, Warren-Darley

Of these there are several for which the crest is also some variation of "a dexter arm in armour embowed, holding a [sword, dagger, dirk, etc.]" These include, but are not limited to, Alexander (Ireland), M'Allister (Scotland), Macelester (Scotland).

So, really no closer, but interesting.

**Eck** · 10th November 11, 02:12 PM

SlackDrummer - Sir, well done so far. A lot of work undertaken by you to research that. I think as a result we are getting closer. Here are a couple of images of the Alexander clan badge

Other than that the motto is Latin as opposed to Gaelic the badges are very similar.

Stephen Dawson-Bowman, MD of Art Pewter Silver Ltd has confirmed that the surround containing 'Air Muir's Air Tir' has indeed been commisioned by the Chief of MacDonald of Keppoch however the centre piece is entirely different. He will endeavour to check his archives in time in an effort to assist us further. (What a gentleman).

**Eck** · 10th November 11, 02:17 PM

Apologies Kenneth - I mistype I meant SlackerDrummer. (Getting late)

**DavidB80911** · 11th November 11, 09:10 AM

Have been reading the post on this mystey badge with great interest.

I do have one question, could there be some sort of Clergy connection.

What the arm Dexter is holding, it looks like 3 cros'es ( forgive my spellig ) and it looks like they may be on a staff for the bottom extends below the hand.

I enlarged the picture as large as I could and noticed these things.

If there are any people with knowledge of Church symbology they might have a clue.

**SlackerDrummer** · 11th November 11, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Eck

Apologies Kenneth - I mistype I meant SlackerDrummer. (Getting late)

In addition to being a slacker and a drummer, lately I have been a slack drummer. No worries.

**Eck** · 12th November 11, 04:42 AM

I contacted the owner of the clan badge and he said that he had had the badge for many years but could not recall how he came to possess it or it's authentication. He was of the opinion it was a MacDonald of Keppoch badge but not sure.

The new Keppoch Clan chief selected his badge (with the golden eagle, crowned, with wings spread) in 2006 I believe. If the badge in question was made prior to this date it may well have been as 'Chas' suggests, for an armiger or similar.

Anyhow, the badge has just been sold on Ebay to a new owner, let's hope he is a member of/reads this forum and can shed more light on the matter.