View Poll Results: I wear the kilt and...
- Voters
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I'm Scottish. I was born in Scotland -- and I live there now
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I wasn't born in Scotland -- but I live there now
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I'm Scottish but I live outside Scotland
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I have Scottish heritage through direct family ties
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I may have Scottish heritage through tenuous, extended family connections
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I have no Scottish heritage to my knowledge. I just like kilts.
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9th December 11, 08:25 AM
#61
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
As near as I can tell, my ancestors were likely Catholic Highlanders who left Scotland for Ireland after Culloden. They married into Irish families and in the late 1800's emigrated to Nova Scotia, then entered the US through Boston and settled in Maryland as coal miners. Sometime in the 1910's or 20's my grandfather settled in Western PA.
My uncles steadfastly maintain their "Irish-ness" despite our surname being clearly Scots. After visiting Scotland in 2008, I wanted and found our family tartan and got myself a kilt. I now own 5.
Oh, I am a mutt, too. My mother is Czech-Slovak,Austrian-Hungarian, with rumors of some Romany blood...
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9th December 11, 08:51 AM
#62
It depends on how you count
My family connections are pretty direct, that is, I can trace direct descent from several Scots who moved to North America, but none of them in the 19th or 20th century, meaning we are talking about 7 or more generations.
In places like South Carolina, people sometimes observe that dozens of generations of paternal line can be obscured by one marriage. Modern (North American) ideas of clan connection often pick and choose, rather than simply going by your last name. And, not to put too fine a point on it, surnames have occasionally been bestowed on people without an actual biological link. I expect there are nearly as many ways of parsing descent as there are those who are trying to figure it out. My understanding is that some cultures only trust the matrilineal link, because anything else can be "mistaken", though another explanation for that matrilneal priority is the difficulty some families may have had explaining or assimilating outsider sons-in-law. That is to say
"We aren't quite sure whose this child is, but we love him ( or her) dearly."
And I reckon that is as good an explanation as any for many of us- the certainty may come from science or recent ancestry or even current residence, but it may come from a spiritual connection, intentionally affirmed or absorbed or maybe just wished for...
Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife
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9th December 11, 09:04 AM
#63
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
My heritage is Cornish. My grandparents imigrated to the US (Pennsylvania) in the 19th century when coal was discovered. Apparently the cornish had extensive experience in deep vein mining.
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9th December 11, 09:30 AM
#64
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
Originally Posted by Chas
I always knew that my paternal grandfather was Scottish, He came from Aberdeen.
What a fine man he must have been.
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9th December 11, 09:35 AM
#65
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
Originally Posted by ForresterModern
Since there is only one true PATRILINEAL line of descent, by definition we would each more likely have more opportunity for scottish connections via MATRILINEAL relations.
Originally Posted by MacLolife
dozens of generations of paternal line can be obscured by one marriage.
Excellent points! In my own case, were I to rely only on patrilineally inherited surnames I might be considered of Irish ancestry (or perhaps 50% Irish, 50% Scottish based upon the surnames of my parents). However, if I consider their parents (my grandparents) those percentages change to 25% Irish, 25% German and 50% Scottish. One step further and it seems to be 12.5% Irish, 12.5% German and 75% Scottish. On the other hand, if one goes back far enough, and according to recent scientific reports, I would also have some percentage of Neanderthal whose name derives from the Neander Valley of present day Germany -- and apparently THEY didn’t wear trousers either!!!
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9th December 11, 09:43 AM
#66
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
1/4 Irish on my mother side. The family name is Cummings so it not clear if there is any Scot in it. It could be that there is slim tie to the Cumming's of Scotland (the ones that were on the wrong side of the Wallace Bruce affair). I do know that I'm a celt in that I have a unquestion intinctual warming of the blood when I hear the pipes.
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9th December 11, 09:51 AM
#67
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
Originally Posted by Geoff Withnell
I think the connection of Davis/Davies to Davidson comes from the obvious shortening of "Davy's son" to "Davy's", and with spelling being as freehand as is was before such advances as spellcheck , various spellings were common. As I noted, my own grandmother in the 20th century spelled her name several different ways. Davis is usually thought of as a Welsh name, but the family verbal history from several accounts is that Mary Davis came from Scotland, and married Harold Withnell in Leigh, England. Their first born was my dad.
Correct, and just goes to show you that the celt influence runs rampant through all variations of Davidson, Davisson, Dhai, Davis, Davies, MacDavid, Daven, etc...
All in all, I would say the likelyhood of pan-celtic immigrants moving to the highlands and associating with others of similar names (or even changing their names) is just as likely as Scottish workers immigrating to parts of England and Wales and further "Anglicizing" their names to "Davis" from "Davidson"... that is, "very likely".
Last edited by Joshua; 9th December 11 at 10:37 AM.
Reason: Proved myself wrong and corrected it before I was corrected myself...
Have fun and throw far. In that order, too. - o1d_dude
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9th December 11, 10:19 AM
#68
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
Originally Posted by Tobus
But every other line I trace in the family seems to be purely English and Irish names. Womble, Emerson, Johnston, Finnie, Wiggs, Doughty, Clark, Smith, etc.
I'm quite certain Johnston is a Scottish surname (Borders?), Clark and Smith may be also, however, you'd need a paper trail to confirm their origins.
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9th December 11, 10:56 AM
#69
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
Originally Posted by Dram
I'm quite certain Johnston is a Scottish surname (Borders?), Clark and Smith may be also, however, you'd need a paper trail to confirm their origins.
Indeed they can be. Johnston(e) (found in both the Highlands and Lowlands) can also be Norman-Irish as well.
My Clans: Guthrie, Sinclair, Sutherland, MacRae, McCain-Maclachlan, MacGregor-Petrie, Johnstone, Hamilton, Boyd, MacDonald-Alexander, Patterson, Thompson. Welsh:Edwards, Williams, Jones. Paternal line: Brandenburg/Prussia.
Proud member: SCV/Mech Cav, MOSB. Camp Commander Ft. Heiman #1834 SCV Camp.
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9th December 11, 11:15 AM
#70
Re: Census poll: What is your cultural / historical connection to the kilt?
I answered "direct family ties," insofar as I've been able to trace back a number of generations to Clan Munro... but from a traditional, direct father-to-father-to-father surname connection, no. My ancestors are predominantly English and Irish, with some French, Italian, and Estonian thrown in for good measure.
My one fairly concrete Scottish connection comes from maternal connections, generations back - William Munroe was captured in the Battle of Worcester and sent to the colonies as an indentured servant, eventually working his way out of servitude in Lexington, Massachusetts. One of his daughters married into the Pierce family, a daughter of whom eventually married into my direct paternal line a couple of generations later. I was pleasantly surprised to be able to trace William right back to George Munro, 10th Baron of Foulis and clan chief. George married a Ross, so there's another maternal clan connection.. but the Munro link is at least 7 generations deep. (Grain of salt, my research is casual and not rigorously verified... but the connections I found seem pretty well researched and documented.)
So, after all that, what does that tiny sliver of Scottish ancestry "mean"? To paraphrase Bilbo Baggins, "Lots and Nothing at All." To a lot of people it's little more than a footnote. To me, it feels like somewhere to hang my hat; when I think about a hypothetical trip to Scotland, now I can put a pin in the map at Evanton and say "I came from right around here." Of course, in that sense I came from a whole lot of other places too; I quite like Peter Crowe's sentiment about identity:
I honestly believe that ethnic/cultural/national identity is multifaceted but indivisible, and not a matter of proportions (eg more Scottish than British etc.)
I think the unique association of kilt as national dress and tartan as a symbol of affiliation with a clan makes a lot of people really yearn for that sense of Scottish identity, whether for entitlement, belonging, or both. Or maybe it just attracts a certain kind of person who's particularly fascinated by history and genealogy... probably a bit of both.
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