What about black and red diced hose with not MacGregor?

[Donnachaidh Drumair]

Here is where I have just enough knowledge to be troublesome.

I can relate to that, though I'm still a beginner here. In any case, I've always gotten the impression (for whatever that's worth) that the basic diced were fair game for all.

Don't know what the thoughts are of clashing, but my sett is red and I was thinking (read: fantasizing) of getting a pair of these someday in the hazy future.

I wouldn't think the similarity should cause any problems, but I do very much appreciate this much attention and care to such historical detail.

[AKScott]

I wouldn't think the similarity should cause any problems, but I do very much appreciate this much attention and care to such historical detail.

And therein is exactly the crux of the biscuit.

I was originally shocked to find it is quite OK two wear two different tartan patterns with the same outfit - as long as they are from the same clan. I actually favorited this thread, my wife has still not quite come to terms with the idea. After you have absorbed the pictures, cogitate on the simple text in post #27.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-modern-62184/

However, another recurring theme is that it is absolutely not OK to wear two different tartans from two different clans with the same outfit.

In general the users here who actually live in Scotland are, mmm, suprised that many of us in the states own kilts from more than one clan. As poster child number #54 I have two wool tanks in my personal clan setts, and I have a PV (PolyViscose, a synthetic machine washable fiber that really isn't very much like wool at all) knockabout Stillwater in Black Watch, and another PV knockabout in Hunting Stewart.

In general actual Scottish citizens wouldn't dream of owning a kilt in a tartan other than their own clan, unless they were in the military or a pipe band.

The general tone of frequent question is, "Well on my Mom's side I am from Clan MacPickle, but my dad's uncle married a MacOnion, and I want to wear a Clan MacPickle kilt with a Clan MacOnion badge for a kilt pin to honor them both, whaddya think?"

Well, the Scots in general are quite gracious about the fact that they are appalled. In their world view one individual can only belong to one clan. You wanna claim MacPickle, great. You want to claim MacOnion, great.

No man can serve two masters.

Like I said, just enough knowledge to be dangerous. I was looking at diced hose and then realized black and red diced is Clan MacGregor. There are less than a dozen setts I can absolutely recognize for certain, but MacGregor is one of the easy ones.

So far I have two North Americans telling me to wear what I want. But the little voice in the back of my head is saying a gentleman never unintenionally gives offense.

So I am asking. Red and black diced is my third choice, but it also the least expensive of the top three choices I currently have for new formal hose.

[Donnachaidh Drumair]

I will probably horrify a few Scottish nationals/purists in that it is not without the realm that I would entertain the idea of wearing other families' tartans in my ancestry (at again, some unspecified hazy future date), but I would never consider mixing symbols of more than one clan at once. Thus I understand the concern.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the Atholl Highlanders, which I should know more about as an aspiring Donnachaidh! Wow, somehow they totally make that work.

Like I said, just enough knowledge to be dangerous. I was looking at diced hose and then realized black and red diced is Clan MacGregor. There are less than a dozen setts I can absolutely recognize for certain, but MacGregor is one of the easy ones.

Are we talking about a Rob Roy and a simple black/red diced hose here? I just want to make sure. Because in either case, I would imagine the connection incidental, or if one existed, it is so lost to history, having become so generic, as to abrogate that taboo. A cadadh (I had to do an xmarks search for that one) might be a different story. I'll not even venture into that territory.

I'd wait on the experts, of course. I'm as interested to know anything more on this as you.

[AKScott]

Are we talking about a Rob Roy and a simple black/red diced hose here?

Rob Roy is a less correct name for a sett correctly known as Clan MacGregor. It is equal parts red and black in a pattern that looks just like red and black diced hose, or if you prefer just like what is known as gingham in the US:

http://www.lochcarron.com/tartanstro...y_ancient.html

I'd wait on the experts, of course. I'm as interested to know anything more on this as you.

Well, paulhenry is an actual kiltmaker who lives in the UK, he knows his stuff and he is calling me out for continuing to overthink this. To me that is a big deal that he noticed I had already been tutt-tutted by someone else.

On the other hand, I have another current thread open in another tab....this was posted on 1-4-2012 at 0448AM, unknown timezone but not twenty years ago:

This [other thing, not specifically black and red diced hose] is precisely why the wearing of different Clan tartans and badges are best avoided. It is just one of those "niceties" that the Scots have developed in the last couple of centuries to avoid inter-clan upset in more civilised times and occasions.

So there is the recurring theme again. If you are going to wear a clan tartan, pick one clan and one clan only.

If paulhenry says red and black diced are just hose, well, they are just hose. I don't doubt him.

But I don't think I am going to buy the hose either. I think I would rather find something else with less risk of causing unintended offense to someone less informed than paulhenry.

[macwilkin]

But I don't think I am going to buy the hose either. I think I would rather find something else with less risk of causing unintended offense to someone less informed than paulhenry.

I wear red and black diced hose with my formal rig, and I can't say I've ever had this happen to me. I wouldn't worry about it.

T.

[JSFMACLJR]

Rob Roy is a less correct name for a sett correctly known as Clan MacGregor. It is equal parts red and black in a pattern that looks just like red and black diced hose, or if you prefer just like what is known as gingham in the US:

http://www.lochcarron.com/tartanstro...y_ancient.html



Well, paulhenry is an actual kiltmaker who lives in the UK, he knows his stuff and he is calling me out for continuing to overthink this. To me that is a big deal that he noticed I had already been tutt-tutted by someone else.

On the other hand, I have another current thread open in another tab....this was posted on 1-4-2012 at 0448AM, unknown timezone but not twenty years ago:



So there is the recurring theme again. If you are going to wear a clan tartan, pick one clan and one clan only.

If paulhenry says red and black diced are just hose, well, they are just hose. I don't doubt him.

But I don't think I am going to buy the hose either. I think I would rather find something else with less risk of causing unintended offense to someone less informed than paulhenry.

I find it rather odd how quickly you dismiss the advice given by some due to their place of abode, as if their opinions are wrong or at the least do not matter. If you only trust Scots, why didn't you send a PM to one, or at least state in your OP that "real Scots" only need apply?

I stand by the advice I gave you: Yes red and black diced hose are acceptible. Don't over-think this, relax, and don't worry.

[McMurdo]

I find it rather odd how quickly you dismiss the advice given by some due to their place of abode, as if their opinions are wrong or at the least do not matter. If you only trust Scots, why didn't you send a PM to one, or at least state in your OP that "real Scots" only need apply?

I stand by the advice I gave you: Yes red and black diced hose are acceptible. Don't over-think this, relax, and don't worry.

I have to agree here. One other thing you may want to investigate is not just where someone is from but how often they wear the kilt. How familiar are they to the nuances that you think only the Scots are capable of. For myself I have worn the kilt for some 5-6 years continuously, for at least 4 years daily, and more infrequently before that. Both my parents are from Scotland, I am first generation Canadian and grew up you might say in a typically Scottish home, with better plumbing. We grew up learning much of our background. Also I own the hose you are obsessing over, and wear them when in Black or White Tie attire as pictured here:


I also have a pair of red and white diced hose:

As the red and black were made for me I favor those now.

In all these years of kilt wearing and attending balls, and various other functions I have never had anyone say anything regarding my diced hose except that they were a very smart option that more should try.

Before you say that that is simply other guests being polite, please know that I was not the only one so attired. The simple fact is that for Black or White tie, diced or argyll hose are a correct choice, if the tartan is red based many will go for a red and black or a red and white diced sock, as it is very traditional. Remember they are Diced Hose not Tartan or Argyll hose. Do a google search, look through the vintage kilt photos thread, or others on this forum if you still have trouble believing this Canadian.