Native Scots vs the scottish diaspora

[Panache]

I think it is quite interesing that for Scotland being such a small country (relative to places like the USA) and for people separated from living there/that culture by multiple generations that so many around the world have this passion to celebrate Scottish (specifically Highland) culture.

Is there anything else that compares to it?

For those living in the Scottish Highlands it must seem very odd that all these people around the world have this great desire to maintain this connection. But because of it Scottish tradional dance, music, athletics, fashion, and crafts have survived and continue to thrive in a world generally obssessed by the new.

Sure a lot of "brigadoonry" , stories and myths, are bound to pop up, but that happens around any traditions and history.

The Scots have a reputation as engineers. Using what they had efficiently and building things to last. It seems their culture also is built last as it endures and spreads far from the highlands.

Cheers

Jamie

[Joshua]

Not all of us could even remotely be considered diaspora. I have my own motivation for wearing a kilt (and tartan, at that) and it has scant connection to my ancestry, the majority of which have been here one hundred years prior to the American Revolution.

Kilts have a mystique outwith Scotland, as being one of a small handful of ancient, yet relevant Ethnic garbs in Europe, it's very unique. It's a rare day indeed where you would see Lederhosen in Germany/Bavaria, and only at weddings where you might see traditional Greek Foustanella. Compare that to Asia (specifically Japan, Thailand, India) where it is not uncommon to see Native garb on at least 1/100 folks you see daily.

Many Scots may not see this mystique (and rightly so, it is THEIR native dress), but those of us with displaced ancestry still feel the need to connect to something, anything, that can identify them as an individual that goes beyond the person their parents formed. Tracing American/Canadian/South African/Australian ancestry might find oneself with 8 English ancestors, 3 Welsh ancestors, 4 Germans, and a single Scot some 200-years ago. Out of such a mixed ancestry, where would one find an appealing, mysterious, and relevant way to show one's uniqueness in a manner that's still somewhat culturally relevant? The Scot ancestry wins, oddly enough (at least with certain personality types).

Is this a personality flaw? Perhaps. Is it really something to get bent out of shape over? No.

Sorry for the rant, but every time there is a "kilt justification thread" it always plucks at my keyboard strings, mostly due to the fact that I myself had a little identity crisis over the same thing a year or so ago, and when I let go of the "should I or shouldn't I?" mentality, I learned a lot about myself and gained some much-needed confidence in the process.

I say, if you want to wear it, wear it. If you are concerned how other people think of you when you wear it, then wear it well. Justification is not needed when picking your clothes, with the exception of the weather. The End.

[cessna152towser]

Peter Crowe wrote:-

I often wondered about operating and running tours of Scotland focused on genuine history and culture for those interested, but seriously fear that to do it properly the costs would be too great and the market too small for such tours to be economically viable.

__________________
I have often had the same thoughts myself!

[piperdbh]

So I would like to ask my cousins (eight times removed) have we done as we should have or am I just full of it?

Some of us have; some of us haven't. In my own family, most have prospered because we were taught to work for what we want, and because there has never been a "family fortune" to draw on. However, a few are less-than-prosperous, mainly due to waste of resources and lack of ambition. My guess is that this is the situation the world over, regardless of ethnicity, race, geographical origin or what-have-you.
To be sure, many people of Scots ancestry (I don't like using "diaspora") have done quite well for themselves, and have become famous for their accomplishments. However, probably an equal (or greater) number have "got by" however they could, and others have had to be "maintained" by their families and/or governments.

So, have we done as we should? Some of us have sometimes. Are you just full of it? Maybe. If you are, welcome to the club.

[piperdbh]

I have often had the same thoughts myself!

I'd like to go on that tour with you and Peter, Alex. In return, I'll be glad to show you around North Carolina.

[Father Bill]

I'd like the tour too! Bet there are enough folks on XMarks to make a couple of rounds economically!

I read somewhere years and years ago that families are always "on the way up" or "on the way down" and they never stay the same. That sort of fits with the "clogs to clogs in three," although I don't think it's always just three. We're in the third generation of doing the better than the last, but it could have happened the other way too. I'll wait to see how the grandchildren do if they come in time for me to hang around and see.

One of the issues in a discussion like this is that a lot of people's ideas of "excellence" "correct" "right" or "good" are highly predicated on their idealized memories of what maybe once was. Kind of clouds the judgement, now doesn't it!

[RockyR]

One of the issues in a discussion like this is that a lot of people's ideas of "excellence" "correct" "right" or "good" are highly predicated on their idealized memories of what maybe once was. Kind of clouds the judgement, now doesn't it!

Kind of the "rose tinted glasses" and the "Grass is always greener" thing together.

[Bugbear]

In my family, I have found no ancestral link to people who lived in Scotland; this being in spite of family mythology to the contrary. I watch as an outsider now; I can't say I would know what it is like to be a Scot regardless of my ancestry, though.

[ANP3]

Here is how I feel, as an American with both "recent," and "old," Scottish blood lines, non of them paternal. My surname is Pavio, and as made painful clear by the vowels it's Italian, but the majority of ancestors are Scottish or their decendents. Like my maternal Grandfather, who's family has lived in American from the French and Indian war, although it is an old America line, the members of it are almost exclusivly people with Scottish surnames, mostly lowland names, like Bell. And although my Grandfather had a traditionally German-Jerwish name, Artman, due to a German Immigrant who was lucky enough to keep having sons, but they married "Scottish -American," women and that trend continued right up to my Grandfather, who married a Londoner (is that the proper term?) who alway told us She wasn't "Pure," English, rather 100% British, because she had ancestors who were Welsh (she was able to speak some Welsh in fact), and Scottish (both Lowland and highland) and English names like "Langridge," and such were reltivly recent. In fact my aunt has photos of her, my mother and their sisters in Kilts as show both the "Scottish-ness," of her fathers side and hers. And as thinly vailed Brittish nationalism in the states.

On to my dad who although he has an Italian last name is not really all that "Italian," even though his grandparents were Italian immigrants, they feld facist Italy, and left nearly all of their culture "on the boat," my dad can't speak Italian, his grandfather changed his name from Donato, to Donald and his idea of "traditional Italian food," includes lots of cheese, meat balls, and red sauce. His mother is first Generation Irish-American, and she retained Irish culture, infact her house has high crosses on just about every wall, and she is a faithful member of St. Patrick's RC church. But as I was doing some digging into her family, low and behold I found quite a few Scottish names, in her family tree (her great Grandmother was a MacDonald).

So, as I was looking at my family's cumualtive make up, it was overwhelming Scottish. And, my grandmothers, being British, and 1st gen. Irish-American, I feel almost no connection to my Italian hereatige because my great-grandparents didn't want us to. They chose to leave the culture behind.

Now that you have a lesson on my genealogy, I'll try and give my two cents on the Issue. I think MOST, non-native Scots, who have Scottish ancestry are simply honoring the past, because unless you're an American Indian, or more correctly Native American, NOBODY in the U.S.A. is really "from here," if that makes any sense. Americans don't necessarily want to be Scottish, Irish, Welsh, English or Italian, rather they want to honor their ancestors like Jenny Bell, or Mary MacDonald. I would argue the ________-Americans have a totally unique culture unto it self. There are few if any, connections between the Irish-ness my grandmother feels, and the patriotism any native-Irishman feels. We don't feel patriotism for our "ancestral homelands," rather pride in them because it's "where we're from". Same is culturally true, the Culture of any _______-Americans is never going to be exactly like the original, it will be "Americanised."

Okay so why do I wear a kilt:
1.) My ancestry is maily Scottsish, so I wear it to honour my ancestors. Same with bagpipes, and I enjoy playing them, and the sense of pride in my ancestry this all gives me.
2.) Do I call my self "Scottish?" No! I was born in upstate New York (near Rochester), and proud of it! I'll die in this place if I have my way!
3.) Do i live in the "myth," of Scotland, Ireland, or Britain as a whole? No, I'm very aware that Rob Roy, (Mel Gibson's) Braveheart and the blue painted, naked Picts running down a hill at Romans are history, and false hollywood versions of history.
4.) Do I claim Clan membership. Again no, last time I checked their was no Clan Pavio, however I can say I had ancestors who had Clan names, like Mary Macdonald, my Great-great Grandmother. Do I wear Clan Tartans? Yes to honor those ancestors I had who had those names, because while I didn't they are still a part of the family history.

Now about the people who paint themselves blue and wear great kilts to fairs...well their a different story. So, I don't feel we are stealing a culture. I think the term Scottish-American is accurate because we have a Scottish Influenced sub-culture, and we don't view ourselves as "Scottish," in the same way you do.

Okay. Well that's my rant...I'm not positive it really answered anything, but maybe it gives perspective.

[Lyle1]

I would argue the ________-Americans have a totally unique culture unto it self. There are few if any, connections between the Irish-ness my grandmother feels, and the patriotism any native-Irishman feels. We don't feel patriotism for our "ancestral homelands," rather pride in them because it's "where we're from". Same is culturally true, the Culture of any _______-Americans is never going to be exactly like the original, it will be "Americanised."

Well said. I would only add that I do not think that most hyphenated Americans even consider trying to carefully replicate the customs or practices of their ancestral homelands. We honor the memory of our ancestral homelands (and most Americans have more than one) in uniquely American ways without a thought as to whether we are "doing it right." I, personally enjoy hearing how things are done in other countries, but I certainly do not look to residents of other countries for approval of how I honor my heritage.