An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[O'Searcaigh]

Gentlemen, it seems there is an at least implicit if not explicit implication in all this about what one "should" or "should not" do regarding the wearing of a kilt. My professional background impels me to ask: What kind of "should" could this possibly be? There are ethical, moral and legal "shoulds" (e.g., "You should treat others as you would wish to be treated." "You should tell the truth under oath." etc.) and there are cultural and aesthetic shoulds (e.g., "You shouldn't wear white after Labor Day." "You shouldn't mix your peas and mashed potatoes when you eat them." etc.). There are also "shoulds" of practical recommendation (e.g., "You should keep the engine of your car lubricated.".) The first kind are matters of duty; the second are matters of taste; the third, just practical advice. Confusing one kind of "should" with another has caused a lot of both personal and interpersonal distress. Moreover, when someone holds any kind of "should" with an attitude of its being a demand, it usually ends up generating anger which is why many cognitive behavioral therapists recommend the saying: "I will not should on myself or anyone else today" to their anger prone patients/clients. Unless I am missing something, all the issues here are matters of personal taste or at most a particular -- and perhaps peculiar in the sense of not being universal -- perspective about cultural mores. Jock Scot has not, as far as I can tell, demanded that anyone do anything; he has simply responded honestly to a question posed to him about his take on an issue of cultural propriety and personal taste and he should (hmmm... what kind is that one?) be honored that his opinion is apparently valued. However, I don't see his expression of opinion as all that much unlike some "real" cowboy's or "real" seafarers I have known who think anyone wearing western wear or nautical attire who wasn't an "actual" cowboy or seafarer (whatever constitutes that) are just "playing cowboy" or "sailor" and should not be wearing "their" attire. The deep psychological (and perhaps even psychiatric) issues that might or could be involved on both sides of this divide are much too complex to go into here and in any case would be peculiar to each individual. My clinical as well as personal advice to both, however, would be to "lighten up;" life is too short to spend it arguing with each other over matters of taste. Express your self for sure (as indeed any kilt wearer does if by no other way than by simply wearing a kilt) but for your own sake and the sake of others, don't "should on" anyone, including yourself. As the Buddhists say: Anger is like a hot stone you hold in your hand intending to throw it at someone; you're the only one who gets burnt!

[Jock Scot]

That amazes me. I had no idea Scots thought of the kilt with such restriction. I figured yall would be proud that others carry on the tradition, specially your own blood!.

Wow.

I am sorry my reply to a very reasonable question has shocked you so, but your reaction proves my point exactly.

[ctbuchanan]

Quote "That amazes me. I had no idea Scots thought of the kilt with such restriction. I figured yall would be proud that others carry on the tradition, specially your own blood!. "

As you and others, including Jock Scot, acknowledge that is one opinion you might receive in Scotland if solicited. Being first generation U.S. I have many family members still back in Scotland and while they think many of our notions as a bit daft (i.e. Clan Tents at a Highland Games) they have never expressed the opinion to me that they thought our wearing of the kilt over here was in any way out of line. And have no fear, if they felt that way they would have said it plainly.

As in all things you will get quite a fair mix on a question of this kind.

[Jock Scot]

Quote

As in all things you will get quite a fair mix on a question of this kind.

I absolutely agree with you , the point that I have been trying to make is that the point of view that I am expounding exists, it does not necessarily have to be even my opinion and it is as well that people outwith Scotland are aware of it. It is abundantly clear that at least one person on this thread did not. He is now wiser and even if he chooses to ignore it, as is his right so to do, he may not be so shocked should he hear that opinion voiced again.

[SlackerDrummer]

As the OP of this thread, I'd make the simple request that the conversation steer back to the original question. There are a great many threads on this and related fora regarding how to wear the kilt, when to wear the kilt, who should wear the kilt, etc., but this isn't one.

My original question was an attempt to try to discern whether the attitude regarding non-Scots wearing kilts was more about "those people over in ______" or if it might apply equally to people one actually knows, particularly recent emigrants of one's own family.

While I am not completely stunned, I did find it a little shocking that Jock would so readily accept his own grandchildren abandoning a part of their cultural identity, but who am I to judge that? Old World/New World differences I suppose. It's no skin off my nose.

[McClef]

Jock, you do a very good job of showing an alternative point of view.

It's just I am concerned that my logic sees potential problems for the continued good health of kilt wearing and sometimes I do feel the need to challenge, hopefully in a respectful and friendly manner, some of your comments.

A good discussion over a wee dram would I am sure be delightful though.

[guardsman]

a kILT IS SO EXPENSIVE NOT MANY CAN AFFORD TO WEAR ONE, sHOULD OUR HERITAGE DIE OUT, jESUS WAS BORN IN A BARN,HE WAS A MAN NOT AN ANIMAL. YOU CAN BE BORN WHEREVER , BUT YOUR HERITAGE IS EVERYTHING.MY PARENTS WERE SCOTS , MY GRANDPARENTS SCOTS AND SO FORTH, I WAS BORN IN WALES BECAUSE OF MY FATHERS JOB. I WAS BROUGHT UP SUPPORTING SCOTLAND AND NO OTHER SO DONT TELL ME I CANT WEAR A KILT

[Nick the DSM]

a kILT IS SO EXPENSIVE NOT MANY CAN AFFORD TO WEAR ONE, sHOULD OUR HERITAGE DIE OUT, jESUS WAS BORN IN A BARN,HE WAS A MAN NOT AN ANIMAL. YOU CAN BE BORN WHEREVER , BUT YOUR HERITAGE IS EVERYTHING.MY PARENTS WERE SCOTS , MY GRANDPARENTS SCOTS AND SO FORTH, I WAS BORN IN WALES BECAUSE OF MY FATHERS JOB. I WAS BROUGHT UP SUPPORTING SCOTLAND AND NO OTHER SO DONT TELL ME I CANT WEAR A KILT

Relax. and I know you really want to express yourself, but all caps is harmful to read.

[Jock Scot]

As the OP of this thread, I'd make the simple request that the conversation steer back to the original question. There are a great many threads on this and related fora regarding how to wear the kilt, when to wear the kilt, who should wear the kilt, etc., but this isn't one.

My original question was an attempt to try to discern whether the attitude regarding non-Scots wearing kilts was more about "those people over in ______" and if it might apply equally to people one actually knows, particularly recent emigrants of one's own family.

While I am not completely stunned, I did find it a little shocking that Jock would so readily accept his own grandchildren abandoning a part of their cultural identity, but who am I to judge that? Old World/New World differences I suppose. It's no skin off my nose.

Well its quite simple really. Let us take my fictitious grandson as the example. If he chooses to become an American citizen for example, or maybe he was of an age not to choose legally, so his father chose for him, he is an American from then on and until he decides otherwise that is the way it will stay, he does not stop being my grandson and it does not stop his offspring having Scots genes and roots, I will still love him as part of the family, but he ceases to be a Scot and as such I would expect him to behave as an American and be loyal to America and absolutely not hark back to Scotland in a major way. Playing at being a Scot for example. Simple.

So have the Scots no roots? Yes of course they have, but rarely do you see them (actually I never have) playing at being Normans for example. It seems that we(some of us anyway) just see things rather differently, that is all.

[Peter Crowe]

As the OP of this thread, I'd make the simple request that the conversation steer back to the original question. There are a great many threads on this and related fora regarding how to wear the kilt, when to wear the kilt, who should wear the kilt, etc., but this isn't one.

My original question was an attempt to try to discern whether the attitude regarding non-Scots wearing kilts was more about "those people over in ______" or if it might apply equally to people one actually knows, particularly recent emigrants of one's own family.

While I am not completely stunned, I did find it a little shocking that Jock would so readily accept his own grandchildren abandoning a part of their cultural identity, but who am I to judge that? Old World/New World differences I suppose. It's no skin off my nose.

I don't have grandchildren, but I have a young son, and yes I with the agreement of my American wife encourage him to wear the kilt (who knows we may return to live in Scotland at some point before he grows up, although given present circumstances I doubt it) as a cultural inheritance from my family and place of origin.

If he decides it is not for him when he is older that will be his right (although I would prefer otherwise). If he remains here and has children it will be for him (and his wife) to decide whether to bring up their children in the same or a similar way.

Beyond those values and traditions with which you try to educate and pass on to your own children (direct heirs), I think it becomes unrealistic, not to mention conceited to try and bind future generations with the norms of your own time.