Scots-Irish

[Blackrose87]

Thanks for all the replies! It's very interesting history that I knew next to nothing about.

It seems that the Ulster-Scots flourished on immigrating to America. I don't have an accurate number for the population of Ireland describing themselves as Ulster-Scots, but at a guess it would be no more than 750,000 to 1m.
(given that the population of n Ireland is ~1.5m, with around 55% Protestant. Then the other 3 counties of Ulster have a small population of Ulster-Scots added to this.)

With so many having Ulster-Scots heritage, are there many speakers of the Ulstér-Scotch language?
From what I'm aware, it's a dying language here maybe it could have more speakers in America than in Ireland?

[EagleJCS]

Thanks for all the replies! It's very interesting history that I knew next to nothing about.

With so many having Ulster-Scots heritage, are there many speakers of the Ulstér-Scotch language?
From what I'm aware, it's a dying language here maybe it could have more speakers in America than in Ireland?

I have read (unfortunately I don't recall where) that there are/were lingusitic scholars that identified certain speech patterns and phrases that are similar between the Scots/Lallans speakers and the rural Appalachian settlers and their descendants. Given the separation in time and distance and the isolation of the rural environs, it is to be expected that the two groups diverged (much like Irish and Scots Gaelic has diverged).

There are also similar studies being done now on the musical traditions in those same groups, comparing/contrasting the original tunes found in Scotland/England/Ireland and the variations found in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and Applachia. Bluegrass music (once known as 'mountain music'), in particular, is thought to have evolved from some of the folk tunes brought over by the Scots-Irish in the various waves of emigration.

[Deil the Yin]

As a 1/2-hillbilly bluegrass-er I'll have to wade in on a technical yet poignant point here, to wit: Bluegrass, the popular genre begun by Bill Monroe in the 1940's South, is actually a separate music group from what is considered "mountain music," though they might often sound very similar as mountain music is generally the base layer of blue grass with a good smattering of country-blues mixed in (depending on who you're listening to). In addition, much of "mountain music" IS directly taken from the folk songs of the British Isles (I will refer you to Ms Jean Richie's Field Trip album). Many times the lyrics are altered to reflect the new local, but they are nonetheless very strongly related. One of the best examples I know is Shady Grove: what many folk will recognise as a traditional Blue Grass song but that was taken from traditional mountain music (just give some extra country-blues licks possibly) and before that was an English/British folk song. In fact I heard the Scottish trad band Session A9 play a version of it in Inverness at the Highland festival there. When I recounted the fact that it was a traditional Bluegrass song to one of the band members, he turned his nose up and said it was actually an English folk song, though he also admitted the band's source for it was The Grateful Dead, of whom Gerry Garcia had his own Bluegrass band called Old and in the Way. Hmmmm...

There are also similar studies being done now on the musical traditions in those same groups, comparing/contrasting the original tunes found in Scotland/England/Ireland and the variations found in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and Appalachia. Bluegrass music (once known as 'mountain music'), in particular, is thought to have evolved from some of the folk tunes brought over by the Scots-Irish in the various waves of emigration.

ADDENDUM: And so as not to seemingly hijack this interesting post, I will also concur with the point of view that the term "Scots-Irish" began as a historical reference similar to the term Celts etc, but eventually trickled into more common usage outside of academia. I would also, if I may, inject another counterpoint to some of this thread's contributors who have insinuated that Southerners do not have a legitimate claim to their Scots-Irish/Scottish/Irish/etc heritage based apparently(?) on the proportion of these settlers to their English counterparts and the homogenisation of same with settlers of other nationalities, eg Germans, French-Huguenots etc. While I won't say these points aren't true, I believe that- as in the auld sod where Scots and other Celtic populations contributed to the "greater" society/culture of the nation disproportionately to their numbers- so too have the cultural and ethnic traits of our Irish/Scots/Scots-Irish ancestors shown through despite a disproportionate population and cross-breeding with other nationalities. In addition (and just to throw a little twist in there), with the strong propensity of Southerners to cling to heritage and tradition, I believe some among the Southern population can refer to themselves, arguably of course, as "American-Scots," as I do. It is also my belief that the American South could in many ways be considered, again- certainly arguably, as a Celtic Nation.

DISCLAIMER: I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here; I didn't read through all 15 pages before posting this... (apologies if so).

[EagleJCS]

As a 1/2-hillbilly bluegrass-er I'll have to wade in on a technical yet poignant point here, to wit: Bluegrass, the popular genre begun by Bill Monroe in the 1940's South, is actually a separate music group from what is considered "mountain music," though they might often sound very similar as mountain music is generally the base layer of blue grass with a good smattering of country-blues mixed in (depending on who you're listening to). In addition, much of "mountain music" IS directly taken from the folk songs of the British Isles (I will refer you to Ms Jean Richie's Field Trip album). Many times the lyrics are altered to reflect the new local, but they are nonetheless very strongly related. One of the best examples I know is Shady Grove: what many folk will recognise as a traditional Blue Grass song but that was taken from traditional mountain music (just give some extra country-blues licks possibly) and before that was an English/British folk song. In fact I heard the Scottish trad band Session A9 play a version of it in Inverness at the Highland festival there. When I recounted the fact that it was a traditional Bluegrass song to one of the band members, he turned his nose up and said it was actually an English folk song, though he also admitted the band's source for it was The Grateful Dead, of whom Gerry Garcia had his own Bluegrass band called Old and in the Way. Hmmmm...

I did say, 'once known as ...'. I was basing this on what I heard in a recent PBS documentary on Bill Monroe and the development of Bluegrass music. In the early days of the genre, before the 'bluegrass sound' was named as such in the mid-1940's, it was lumped in as a variant of Appalachian music, aka 'mountan music'.

Anyway... wayyy OT from the OP.