Murray of Atholl Stripe pleats

[usonian]

I know that the Atholl Highlanders' kilts are pleated to the stripe, per a few photos that can be found online and this previous thread, but my followup question for Peter or anyone else in the know is whether it's the plain red stripe or the one guarded with black; I can't quite tell from photos.

Thanks!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would imagine it would be the red stripe on the green (the stripe without the black guards). To pleat to the red stripe (with black guards) on the blue would use an inordinant amount of material in each pleat, given the size of the sett.

[davidlpope]

Matt is correct, as ever.

[creagdhubh]

Yes, just listen to Matt!

[usonian]

Thanks Matt, that makes a lot of sense. (Duh, I hadn't noticed the green background field when looking at photos.)

I hadn't gotten to test-pinning pleats yet, but this would probably would have become readily apparent when I did!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Most Black Watch variants, when pleated to the stripe, will be pleated to the stripe which appears twice in each sett. This is because the Black Watch pattern is so large. Often when mills weave it the sett size is on the order of 14" or more (though this of course will vary).

So, for example, this would mean the MacKenzie tartan pleated to the white line, the Gordon to the yellow line, the Robertson Hunting to the red line, etc.

[tulloch]

Laddie, I suggest we go to Athol, MA on 6/2 and see them for ourselves! You can not only look but can ask them in person any question you have. Then we can see Prydein rock out.

[usonian]

It's already on my calendar, Tulloch! My lodge is hoping to make a presentation to the Marquess of Tullibardine during the official reception (there is a longstanding history of amity between the lodge and the Dukes of Atholl, and I want to make sure the tradition continues.) I've been planning on making a Murray of Atholl ancient kilt to coincide with Athol (sic) MA's 250th anniversary and me probably being installed as Master of the lodge next year... as I wrap up my practice kilt I'm eyeing the calendar and wondering if I want to commit to trying to make it between now and 6/2. I already have the tartan.

[usonian]

Yes, pleating to the full sett would definitely be a no-go. In Marton Mills 16oz wool the full sett is almost exactly 12 inches. The plain red stripe on the half-sett means shallow pleats and lots of them:

[RockyR]

Anyone else confused why the pipers plaids in this pic:

1. Look to be Muted Murray when the kilt is Modern?
2. Are somehow folded on the Bias?
3. Have no pleats in them?

I'm not claiming to know everything about pipers plaids, but they're very different from plaids I've seen.