Scots-Irish

[Blackrose87]

I have visited Ulster several times. First time was when I was 7 and we visited my Uncles farm near Belfast. I never heard anyone refering to themselves as Ulster anything. Maybe once or twice Northern Irish in that my Uncle was Northern Irish and my Aunt (my mothers sister) was English. I have many cousins over there of mixed religion so denomination never came into conversations.
I never saw any kilts over there.

Chris.

That may be your experience, but growing up in Derry I know that a lot of the unionist community refer to themselves as being from Ulster. One of the main political parties is even called the Ulster Unionist Party. In fact the term has been used so much by the unionist community, many nationalists tend not to use it anymore.
And while Ulster-Scots is a term usually reserved for the language, a lot of people still would refer to themselves by this.

Your right that kilts are not seen regularly as everyday wear, but they are quite commonly seen in pipe bands and at weddings. (quite similiar to Scotland really, if you avoid the tourist areas)

[MacBean]

When my family arrived in South Carolina in 1767, the record called those arriving on the same ship, "poor Irish Protestants", which was what the colony was looking for and paid for. They weren't indentured, their passage was paid, they were granted land in the far interior of South Carolina (near the Cherokee), and each given a quite reasonable money grubstake. For the next two generations they married other families of Scottish descent and moved west rapidly. My own family was in Missouri by 1806. Although my direct family did not intermarry with Native Americans, this did occur and one finds Scottish names among the Cherokee today.

So this small bit of evidence backs up what others have said, only I think the people may have been called Irish Protestants at the time rather than Irish Presbyterians. This is similar to the Church Affiliation Census in Ireland in 1766, where families were recorded as Catholic, Protestant, or Dissenters (the term Presbyterian did not seem to be used). In my own family's case, there is no evidence that they were ever Presbyterian; Episcopalian or perhaps Methodist seems more likely.

[Blackrose87]

When my family arrived in South Carolina in 1767, the record called those arriving on the same ship, "poor Irish Protestants", which was what the colony was looking for and paid for. They weren't indentured, their passage was paid, they were granted land in the far interior of South Carolina (near the Cherokee), and each given a quite reasonable money grubstake. For the next two generations they married other families of Scottish descent and moved west rapidly. My own family was in Missouri by 1806. Although my direct family did not intermarry with Native Americans, this did occur and one finds Scottish names among the Cherokee today.

So this small bit of evidence backs up what others have said, only I think the people may have been called Irish Protestants at the time rather than Irish Presbyterians. This is similar to the Church Affiliation Census in Ireland in 1766, where families were recorded as Catholic, Protestant, or Dissenters (the term Presbyterian did not seem to be used). In my own family's case, there is no evidence that they were ever Presbyterian; Episcopalian or perhaps Methodist seems more likely.

If they were Irish Protestants from Ulster but not Presbyterians, then they would most likely be CoI. The Methodist church in Ireland didn't begin until 1784, which wouldn't fit with your dates.

In Ireland, non-Catholic Christian religions still tend to be grouped together. This is especially evident in the north, with the catholic-Protestant divisions.

[Lyle1]

Perhaps. I just wanted to clear up any confusion that may result from this incorrect usage. Unlike someone describing their heritage as German-Chinese, Scotch-Irish has a very distinct meaning in the US and would almost always be interpreted to mean someone of Ulster Scots ancestry.

It has not been my experience that the term "Scotch-Irish" has a distinct meaning that is well understood by most Americans. Among some interest groups or in some locales, it might be commonly understood to mean that group of Scots who migrated through Norther Ireland on their way to the U.S., but I've found that people who have little interest in history or genealogy, the term can as easily mean people who have both Scottish and Irish ancestors. I find that there is much less chance for misunderstanding if I use the term, "Ulster-Scots".

[SlackerDrummer]

It has not been my experience that the term "Scotch-Irish" has a distinct meaning that is well understood by most Americans. Among some interest groups or in some locales, it might be commonly understood to mean that group of Scots who migrated through Norther Ireland on their way to the U.S., but I've found that people who have little interest in history or genealogy, the term can as easily mean people who have both Scottish and Irish ancestors. I find that there is much less chance for misunderstanding if I use the term, "Ulster-Scots".

Quite the opposite here. I've always heard the term "Scotch-Irish" used to mean "Ulster-Scots" that emigrated to America. In my experience those who are unfamiliar with the concept are also unfamiliar with the term. I remember as a very young boy thinking that I would be a fraud for making a big deal out of St. Patrick's Day because my ancestors weren't Irish, they were Scotch-Irish.

[cck]

As an American and a bit of a mongrel as many of us are, I had asumed that when one described his ancestry as Scotch/Irish he might be just lumping the two together without being more specific. To some, this apparently has a more distinct meaning. Now that the subject has come up, I find myself caught somewhere in the middle. My family name is Craig, commonly found all over Scotland. I was never under the impression it was Irish. However, my great-great grandfather was born in Dublin. John O'Hart in his 1878 book, "Irish Pedigrees, the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation," has a section on the name Craig and mentions him. The line is traced directly back to Scotland. Where does that put us? Scottish, Irish, Scotch/Irish, an Ulster dropping?

[Blackrose87]

I remember as a very young boy thinking that I would be a fraud for making a big deal out of St. Patrick's Day because my ancestors weren't Irish, they were Scotch-Irish.

That doesn't make much sense. St. Patrick just outside Ballymena, county Antrim in Ulster.
And St.Patrick's day is celebrated by the Ulster-Scots as much as the rest of the country. The Orange Order even have a St. Patrick's day march.

[SlackerDrummer]

That doesn't make much sense. St. Patrick just outside Ballymena, county Antrim in Ulster.
And St.Patrick's day is celebrated by the Ulster-Scots as much as the rest of the country. The Orange Order even have a St. Patrick's day march.

A lot of things I thought as a young boy didn't make much sense. I was merely trying to illustrate that even at a young age I was able to draw a distinction between the Scotch-Irish and the Irish-Irish or a combination of Scottish and Irish.

[Blackrose87]

As an American and a bit of a mongrel as many of us are, I had asumed that when one described his ancestry as Scotch/Irish he might be just lumping the two together without being more specific. To some, this apparently has a more distinct meaning. Now that the subject has come up, I find myself caught somewhere in the middle. My family name is Craig, commonly found all over Scotland. I was never under the impression it was Irish. However, my great-great grandfather was born in Dublin. John O'Hart in his 1878 book, "Irish Pedigrees, the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation," has a section on the name Craig and mentions him. The line is traced directly back to Scotland. Where does that put us? Scottish, Irish, Scotch/Irish, an Ulster dropping?

I suppose it depends how long your family lived in Ireland, and how much they mixed with the native population while here.
My family most likely came to Ireland from Scotland during the Ulster plantation. But I've never considered myself to be Scottish in any way, as this happened over 400 years ago.
I think the term "Irish-Irish" seems to be used here

But many in the other side of the community in the north of Ireland have stayed more serrated as a community and not mixed with the native Catholic people here. So they still hold on to their Scottish roots, with wearing the kilt, flying the Saltire and speaking the hamely tongue.

So I suppose it's the culture and traditions that surround you which influence your heritage. While I consider myself 100% Irish, if I had grown up with my fathers family in mid-Antrim I'd likely consider myself Ulster-Scots.

[John_Carrick]

Many (most?) Ulster Unionists and Ulster Scots describe themselves as Irish and a large proportion of Nationalists do not currently favour a united Ireland. Lots of people here have two passports, me included.
John