Another Ebay sporran!!!

**Jock Scot** · 19th June 12, 04:39 AM

As I understand it, in the UK a piece of metal, that could well be silver, cannot be sold as silver without hall marks. Without hall marks, it would be described as "white metal".

**madmacs** · 19th June 12, 04:43 AM

I believe Scotland started marking silver in Edinburgh 1457 with a date stamp being added in 1759... It was really a guarantee that the item was silver, and not a requirement unless you were selling it as silver.

I am guessing that for a lot of fancy goods silver was a lot cheaper than gold, and being malleable a lot easier to work with than iron or other metals...

With the price of metals today however I would be surprised at a seller selling a huge chunk of silver without knowing what it is... Afterall might turn out to be Pt950...

**Jock Scot** · 19th June 12, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by madmacs

I believe Scotland started marking silver in Edinburgh 1457 with a date stamp being added in 1759... It was really a guarantee that the item was silver, and not a requirement unless you were selling it as silver.

I am guessing that for a lot of fancy goods silver was a lot cheaper than gold, and being malleable a lot easier to work with than iron or other metals...

With the price of metals today however I would be surprised at a seller selling a huge chunk of silver without knowing what it is... After all might turn out to be Pt950...

The owner could have the unmarked piece tested and IF it meets the technical requirements, the owner could have the piece hallmarked with THIS YEARS hallmarks. Well that would allow the owner to legally sell the piece as silver, the problem then might be, that a purchaser might not want a 150 year old piece of metal(silver, as we now know) with a 2012 date stamp on it.

**madmacs** · 19th June 12, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

The owner could have the unmarked piece tested and IF it meets the technical requirements, the owner could have the piece hallmarked with THIS YEARS hallmarks. Well that would allow the owner to legally sell the piece as silver, the problem then might be, that a purchaser might not want a 150 year old piece of metal(silver, as we now know) with a 2012 date stamp on it.

He could also have it tested at most jewellers to verify if it was silver without it getting hallmarked

**Paul Henry** · 19th June 12, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by madmacs

He could also have it tested at most jewellers to verify if it was silver without it getting hallmarked

Unless it is hallmarked it cannot legally be sold as silver, of course a test can be done to check if it is indeed silver, but that test has no bearing on the item if it is sold, Hallmarks in the UK are very important in showing if the item is indeed a precious metal and are a guarantee of metal content

**Jock Scot** · 19th June 12, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by madmacs

He could also have it tested at most jewellers to verify if it was silver without it getting hallmarked

Indeed he could,but without hallmarks he cannot legally sell it as silver and nor can his agent, Ebay for example. Therefore the legal definition and description is "white metal" and is sold and bought under that heading, regardless of whatever the metal might actually be.

**Chas** · 19th June 12, 05:21 AM

The Hallmarking Act 1973 made Britain a member of the Vienna Convention as well as introducing marking for platinum, a recognised metal under the Convention. All four remaining assay offices finally adopted the same date letter sequences. The latest changes in 1999 were made to the UK hallmarking system to bring the system closer into line with the European Union (EU). Note: that under this latest enactment, the date letter is no longer a compulsory part of the hallmark.

As it now stands, the compulsory part of the UK hallmark consists of the sponsor or maker's mark, the assay office mark, and the standard of fineness (in this case silver, 925 parts in 1000).

Regards

Chas

**Jock Scot** · 19th June 12, 05:37 AM

Thank you Chas, I did not know about the date stamp being optional these days. I personally would require one

Nevertheless would I want , as a purchaser of an antique, fresh hallmarks? In this modern day world of fakery from all corners of this Earth, alarm bells would ring loud and clear and even if I took the decision (and risk) to purchase a legitimate piece, my ancestors may have a torrid time explaining to whoever that a 150 year old antique has fresh hallmarks. No, this bidder would step away as many would, therefore the less bidders in the game the lower the price. Good in the short term for the purchaser, bad all round for the seller of today and years to come.

UK silver buyer's law. Rule I. No hallmarks, its not silver.
UK silver buyer's law. Rule 2. Regard antique silver with fresh hallmarks with suspicion.
UK silver buyer's law. Rule 3. If rule one and/or rule two apply, walk away, there is plenty more "good" stuff to be found elsewhere.

UK silver sellers lament. A curse on those that failed to hallmark their wares at the appropriate time!

**MacLowlife** · 19th June 12, 05:52 AM

"Genuinely old" There is a rotisserie chicken in my refrigerator that is genuinely old. If I were king, I would make provision for a special hallmarking that allowed for an object to be marked as pure and then marked as clearly being not of recent manufacture- recent being described as five years. Or fifty years, maybe, provided the fifty years could be shown. Since I am not yet king ( campaign contributions now being accepted at www.KingMac.com ) I believe I would personally stamp this one "Caveat Emptor." Now off to clean out the fridge.

**artificer** · 19th June 12, 05:52 AM

My guess as to the age would be mid/late 1800s possibly early 1900s, based on the general construction. I think late 1700s is probably too early.

As to the Hallmark, if it were made privately (possibly of coin silver) with no intent to sell it, I could see it potentially not having a hallmark (perhaps the maker didn't want to pay the assayer's office for the service).

That said, I would in no way purchase this with the expectation of it actually being silver.