Another Ebay sporran!!!

[Jock Scot]

Show me picture of something that has been hallmarked as silver and isn't.

Regards

Chas

I am now watching with considerable interest.

[SlackerDrummer]

Show me picture of something that has been hallmarked as silver and isn't.

Now you're just being silly, Chas. I'm not talking about something that isn't silver that has an invalid/false/fake hallmark on it. I'm talking about something that is made of silver that does not have a hallmark on it. It's pretty simple.

Silver with a hallmark = Silver
Silver without a hallmark = Silver
Not silver without a hallmark ≠ Silver
Not silver with an invalid hallmark ≠ Silver

[dea3369]

Show me picture of something that has been hallmarked as silver and isn't.

Regards

Chas

We accept that in the UK, for something to be sold as silver, it must bear the appropriate hallmark. However, what SlackerDrummer is saying is he can show you something that is indeed silver but isn't hallmarked. Or put differently, we cannot say that the Australians are not mining silver simply because that stuff in the ground doesn't have a hallmark. The application of a hallmark to a finished piece of work does not effect a transubstantiation. At the physical level, that "thing" was silver before and after it received a hallmark.

But you're correct to say that if one is in the UK buying something purported to be silver, then it must have a hallmark. Otherwise, caveat emptor.

[Jock Scot]

I cannot speak for Chas and I cannot speak of the assorted laws of other countries. However, let us say that in the UK there could be a bar of the purest silver known to man for sale, cast by the very own hand of King George V, but without the appropriate hallmarks the person selling it and the agent (auctioneer?) if there is one, cannot under UK law in the UK, sell it as silver. It can only be sold as "white metal". That is it.

[SlackerDrummer]

I cannot speak for Chas and I cannot speak of the assorted laws of other countries. However, let us say that in the UK there could be a bar of the purest silver known to man for sale, cast by the very own hand of King George V, but without the appropriate hallmarks the person selling it and the agent (auctioneer?) if there is one, cannot under UK law in the UK, sell it as silver. It can only be sold as "white metal". That is it.

There is a subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless. You may not be able to advertise it as silver, but that doesn't make it not silver. That's my only point and I'll quit belaboring the point now.

EDIT: One more point before I quit ...
It appears, according to this article originally published in 1899, that there are ... wait for it ... fake hallmarks. I take your point, gentlemen, to mean, though, that a legitimate hallmark is a guarantee that something is in fact silver and without that hallmark there can be no such guarantee. On that we agree and I never meant to contradict that fact.

[Paul Henry]

I don't think that any of us in the UK , commenting here,ever said an object in white metal might or might not be (actual) silver, but unless it has a hallmark it can not be sold or advertised as such. I'm sure there are lots of objects made out of genuine silver in this country, but without proof i.e. hallmarks , when it comes to selling them, they might as well any base metal.

[Deirachel]

Quoted from the description of the item.

" has a plain heavy guage silver metal mount on the top. This could be Real Silver but there are no Hallmarks."

The seller is staying legal with these statements. S/he's not saying it is silver, just that it could be. By saying "silver metal" he is describing appearance, not material. While the warnings here are valid in general, in the listing, it is stating there is no guarantee of silver content.

[madmacs]

Darn... You mean there might be unscrupulus dealers of antiquities out there with illegal assay stamps? Noooooooooooooooo... Couldnt be true...

There is of course plenty of mexican silver stamped 925 in the UK brought back by holiday makers... Some of it might even be real...

[madmacs]

Indeed he could,but without hallmarks he cannot legally sell it as silver and nor can his agent, Ebay for example. Therefore the legal definition and description is "white metal" and is sold and bought under that heading, regardless of whatever the metal might actually be.

And if it were that antique coffee set you were selling me (tea would be useless since I dont drink the brew...) and I liked it, I would probably be more than happy to accept a jeweller telling me it's sterling... I'm guessing you'd tell me it was silver though... I suspect those nice trading standards folks would only call the revenue service if I complained... At which point I guess the issue would be "was it misrepresented..."