Under The Hammer

[TheBrus]

It would have fit me up to the point where I got married... now only my kilt tailor knows my actual measurements for sure.

[Chas]

I too like the waistcoat. Corduroy, unfortunately has become so unfashionable, that it is so rarely seen these days.

Is it just me or is there something strange going on with these trousers?
Yes, they are very high-waisted, but that was the fashion and he was a very slim man.

But what is with the large band round the waist. If it is the waistband of the trousers then it is about 8" deep. It looks like it could be some sort of cummerbund, because the pleats (and what looks like belt loops) disappear under it.

The trouser fly seems to stop at the 'waistband' as well. So how did he put his trousers on? Where would the waist fastening be?

But on the other hand, the Duke of Windsor was a fashion trend setter and he would have known that a cummerbund and waistcoat have never gone together. And if it is a cummerbund, it is not pleated.

So, just what is going on? Any ideas?

Regards

Chas

[Lime]

I too like the waistcoat. Corduroy, unfortunately has become so unfashionable, that it is so rarely seen these days.

Not in my wardrobe!

But what is with the large band round the waist. If it is the waistband of the trousers then it is about 8" deep. It looks like it could be some sort of cummerbund, because the pleats (and what looks like belt loops) disappear under it.

I just assumed, like you, that it was some sort of cummerbund presumably to accentuate slenderness and a higher waist.

known that a cummerbund and waistcoat have never gone together

My impression of the Duke was that he regularly flouted these "rules" with a flamboyance and confidence the rest of us can only dream of!

The trouser fly seems to stop at the 'waistband' as well. So how did he put his trousers on? Where would the waist fastening be?

The Writer in http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/ states that the trousers were made by Harris of New York and have a zip fly. I assume that the trousers are the high waisted "fishtail" back type which are supported by suspenders. It looks as though there are single reverse pleats at the front which accentuate slenderness and height. I suspect that the "belt loops" are second reverse pleats further round on the waist. Someone more knowledgeable than myself will, no doubt, be able to describe Harris's house style. Hopefully the V&A will buy it so I can get down and have a gander!

[sydnie7]

Definitely belt loops, not additional pleats. Perhaps the cummerbund is meant to be worn without either vest, and those who dressed the mannequin for these photos did not realize that they needed three combinations to show all the potential ensembles?

Somebody (not I, this busy morning) needs to hunt up a vintage photo of the Duke wearing this suit -- might answer a few questions.

[Chas]

My impression of the Duke was that he regularly flouted these "rules" with a flamboyance and confidence the rest of us can only dream of!

I don't know that that is true. I know that I have said it myself, but when I think about it, I cannot think of an instance where the rules were flouted.

I know that he was a great clothing innovator. I know that he introduced the use of Midnight Blue as opposed to black for dinner suits (tuxedos), because he thought that the black was far too sombre.

And he had his tailcoats (morning and white tie) cut with higher arm holes so that he could lift his arms up and not look like batman.

As an aside, I once had a tailcoat in the Duke of Windsor style. Yes it does give phenomenal movement, but is almost impossible to put on by yourself. You need someone to be pulling up the neck as your arms are going into the sleeves, otherwise you get jammed and can't go in either direction.

He himself said,

"My position as Prince of Wales dictated that I should always be well and suitably dressed for every conceivable occasion."

My emphasis.

So I can't really see him breaking any rules.

Regards

Chas

[Chas]

Definitely belt loops, not additional pleats. Perhaps the cummerbund is meant to be worn without either vest, and those who dressed the mannequin for these photos did not realize that they needed three combinations to show all the potential ensembles?

I am having trouble seeing that either. I agree about the belt loops, but if that was the height of the trousers then both of his waistcoats were too short.

There is more going on here than meets the eye.

Regards

Chas

[Riverkilt]

Be still my heart! I WANT IT!!!!!....if only it fit a fat man.....

[sydnie7]

The auction catalog lists a cummerbund as part of the ensemble, so I would appear to be correct in my assumption.

If that link doesn't work, the online catalog is available through links from the auction site in OP. Suit is shown and described on pages 12-13.

[Chas]

Well spotted!

Which, of course, brings up the next question. Double breasted dinner jackets are not designed to be worn open. The waistcoats would hardly ever been seen, leave alone a cummerbund.

It seems the corduroy waistcoat was made in 1947, some five years before the suit. So not originally meant to go together, but they do work well.

There are also two marcella waistcoats in the lot as well. I wonder if he just had the tartan stuff made at the same time, but not intended to wear them together.

Regards

Chas

[creagdhubh]

Would appear to be a very, very skinny man.

Mòran taing!

Seawolf

The late Duke of Windsor was indeed a very lean man, and actually maintained the same size and figure throughout his life.

What a beautiful suit! If it only fit me, and if I only had the extra-money to place a bid!!!

Cheers,