Tartan authority - what can I wear?

[Shedlock2000]

Perhaps in some cases the tartan chooses the man.

I think there may be something in that indeed! I have taken an interest in the highland regiment tartans because I feel an affinity to other military regiments - my corps not having a tartan....

[slohairt]

Yes, we have a large number of kilted regiments. (16 or 17?) At least a third of them wear the Government sett which has the nice advantage of being a universal tartan.

[Jock Scot]

Yes, we have a large number of kilted regiments. (16 or 17?) At least a third of them wear the Government sett which has the nice advantage of being a universal tartan.

I stand to be corrected here and I hope one of our resident experts might care to comment, but--------. I think that this term "universal" has been hi-jacked by the world at large. I have always thought, perhaps incorrectly, that "universal" in tartan terms meant British Government tartan sett and perhaps more accurately, for the original use of the British MOD(Commonwealth forces eventually) as their "universal" tartan. Not "universal" in a general world wide sense? I realise that "the horse has bolted" a long time ago, but it does not hurt to be aware of the original intention.

[David Thorpe]

I think there may be something in that indeed! I have taken an interest in the highland regiment tartans because I feel an affinity to other military regiments - my corps not having a tartan....

Have you considered designing a tartan for your regiment?

[macwilkin]

I stand to be corrected here and I hope one of our resident experts might care to comment, but--------. I think that this term "universal" has been hi-jacked by the world at large. I have always thought, perhaps incorrectly, that "universal" in tartan terms meant British Government tartan sett and perhaps more accurately, for the original use of the British MOD(Commonwealth forces eventually) as their "universal" tartan. Not "universal" in a general world wide sense? I realise that "the horse has bolted" a long time ago, but it does not hurt to be aware of the original intention.

Absolutely 100% spot-on correct, Jock. The term "universal" in regards to military tartans refers to an effort in the late 19th century by Erskine Childers of the MoD, who attempted to force all Scottish regiments to wear the same tartan, specifically the Government Sett/Black Watch, as a cost-saving device. Much like the infamous "crucified moose" badge of the 1960s, the "universal" tartan idea was very unpopular among the regiments, and the idea was eventually scrapped.

T.

[Shedlock2000]

Yes, we have a large number of kilted regiments. (16 or 17?) At least a third of them wear the Government sett which has the nice advantage of being a universal tartan.

'We' being Canadians, or British, or the 'kilted masses (as in those of us on here)'? I am guessing you mean there are 16-17 Kilted regiments the world over? Do the British have that many?
Seaforth,
Gordon Highlanders
Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders
Black watch (sadly no longer with us)
Cameron Highlanders
HLI
London Scottish
Liverpool Scottish
Royal Scottish

After that, I run out of names; and I am not even sure if the London and Liverpool Scottish are still about....

[Shedlock2000]

Have you considered designing a tartan for your regiment?

Not at all!! Im no longer in the mob - sadly (long story). But I would think that such a design would be a very problematic thing to do. It would need to be authorised and condoned from the powers that be - and I am not quite sure how one would go about that. I was in R.E.M.E. - and, as far as I know, we never had any tartan - or anything connected to tartan (some English regiments did use a tartan - like the Liverpool Scottish and the Tyneside Scottish (nice eBay item here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kilt-/1709...item27d05f217e)).

[Shedlock2000]

Absolutely 100% spot-on correct, Jock. The term "universal" in regards to military tartans refers to an effort in the late 19th century by Erskine Childers of the MoD, who attempted to force all Scottish regiments to wear the same tartan, specifically the Government Sett/Black Watch, as a cost-saving device. Much like the infamous "crucified moose" badge of the 1960s, the "universal" tartan idea was very unpopular among the regiments, and the idea was eventually scrapped.

T.

I am curious about the 'crucified moose' now!!

Are you suggesting that the oft called 'universal' military tartans are not so - and that the only 'universal' tartans would refer to tartans such as the 'maple leaf', 'Scottish national', 'Royal Stewart', etc?

[macwilkin]

A picture of the infamous "crucified moose" may be found here:

http://scottishmilitarydisasters.com...1:smd&Itemid=2

And the text accompanying it:

The "Crucified Moose" was worn by all the Highland regiments between 1958 and 1968. The regiments all reverted back to their own badges in 1968. The Argylls wore their own badge in Aden in 1967 and then reverted briefly back to the Highland Brigade badge on their return to the UK. The Highland Brigade comprised the Black Watch, the Gordons, the Seaforths, the Argylls and the Camerons. The Highland Light Infantry were part of the Brigade until they merged with the Royal Scots Fusiliers in 1959 and the new regiment, the Royal Highland Fusiliers, was transferred to the Lowland Brigade.

The similarity to the current Royal Regiment of Scotland's badge is very striking.

In answer to your second question: yes, although as Jock stated, that horse has left the stable years ago, and some clans, such as the Campbells and the Grants, also use the Black Watch as tartans.

As far as the REME goes, take a look at this:

http://www.army.mod.uk/reme/20213.aspx

T.

[slohairt]

I meant, we, as Canadians:

1) The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada = Government Sett (Pipers wear Royal Stewart)
2) The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise's) = Government Sett
3) The Toronto Scottish (Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother's Own)= Hodden Grey
4) 48th Highlanders of Canada = Davidson (Pipers wear Stewart of Fingask)
5) The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada = Cameron of Erracht
6) The Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa = Cameron of Erracht
7) The Nova Scotia Highlanders - MacDonald
8) The Cape Breton Highlanders = Government Sett
9) The Irish Regiment of Canada = O'Saffron
10) The Calgary Highlanders = Government Sett
11) The Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's)= Stewart Hunting
12) The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada = Mackenzie
13) The Lorne Scots (Peel, Dufferin, and Halton Regiment) = Campbell Ancient
14) Stormont, Dundas, and Glengarry Highlanders = MacDonnell of Glengarry
15) The Lake Superior Scottish Regiment = MacGillivray
16) Royal Highlander Fusiliers of Canada = Mackenzie
17) The Essex and Kent Scottish = MacGregor

Also:
RCAF tartan for pipers in the Royal Canadian Air Force.
Maple Leaf tartan for pipers in the Royal Canadian Regiment. (Army)