Kilt/Tartan Help

[davidlpope]

Why not get another kilt in the red MacFarlane tartan?

[Jock Scot]

Why not get another kilt in the red MacFarlane tartan?

This seems to be the most obvious course of action, particularly as there are so many weaving options within the one clan tartan. Those of us in Scotland usually wear one Clan tartan. I have the choice of more than a few Clans that I could wear-----I should imagine anyone with a smidgen of Scots ancestry could do the same if they are able to delve into their past-----but one way or another, most Scots choose to wear just the one. That's it. If you are a MacOnion, then wearing a MacKarrott tartan is a bit of a give-away amongst the home of the kilt where views on Clan tartans can be far more conservative.

Remember too, there are still, deep historical inter-clan suspicions lurking that might be watered down by time and distance such as the Atlantic. Make no mistake though, these days Scotland is a fine example of burying the hatchet in some distant peat bog and not burying it in each other's heads. When we consider the historical inter-clan enmities that existed in the not too distant past, present day Scotland has a lot to be proud of over this, but, BUT, there is still always a chance of minor, but heated, inter-clan "discussions" taking place in the beer tent and wearing a tartan that does not go with your name is not a complication that many Scots need.

[creagdhubh]

This seems to be the most obvious course of action, particularly as there are so many weaving options within the one clan tartan. Those of us in Scotland usually wear one Clan tartan. I have the choice of more than a few Clans that I could wear-----I should imagine anyone with a smidgen of Scots ancestry could do the same if they are able to delve into their past-----but one way or another, most Scots choose to wear just the one. That's it. If you are a MacOnion, then wearing a MacKarrott tartan is a bit of a give-away amongst the home of the kilt where views on Clan tartans can be far more conservative.

Remember too, there are still, deep historical inter-clan suspicions lurking that might be watered down by time and distance such as the Atlantic. Make no mistake though, these days Scotland is a fine example of burying the hatchet in some distant peat bog and not burying it in each other's heads. When we consider the historical inter-clan enmities that existed in the not too distant past, present day Scotland has a lot to be proud of over this, but, BUT, there is still always a chance of minor, but heated, inter-clan "discussions" taking place in the beer tent and wearing a tartan that does not go with your name is not a complication that many Scots need.

***

MacFarlane is a fine sett indeed, and with all of the colour schemes out there, I think that's the way to go. It's the way I would go...just saying.

Cheers,

[usonian]

This topic has been a dead horse for quite some time now on this forum. The horse is an early, now extinct species. What we are beating here yet again is no more than fossilized bones reduced to dust.

Big, huge, enormous ***.

It pretty much comes down to this:

• Until such time as the sale of all tartan is governed by a single central authority who will only mete it out after irrefutable genetic or genealogical proof that you belong to a particular clan, you can purchase and wear whatever tartan you please.
• Traditionally, however, one would wear a tartan with which they have a family connection, or absent a family connection then they would wear a "universal" tartan.
• Some people will heartily encourage you to wear whatever tartan you like for whatever reason you like.
• Some people will take offense (ranging from mild indignation to outright castigation) if they learn you're wearing another family's tartan with no affiliation.
• Most people won't even notice or ask about your tartan - or if they do it's small talk and they'll drop the subject once you tell them.
• If you're fine with all that, then go for it.
• If you're not fine with it, stick with your family tartan (or a universal one if you don't have a Scottish connection.)

There is no single, simple, universally agreed-upon answer to the question; it can be (and has been) asked 1000 times on this forum and will never result in consensus, so it's ultimately going to be up to the individual kilt wearer.

When I set out to make my first 8 yard wool kilt, I purchased my tartan from Marton Mills because I was on a budget, and their 16oz wool is quite affordable when compared to Lochcarron or D.C. Dalgliesh. They don't weave my family tartan. (Well, technically I could have gone with Black Watch, which Clan Munro wears as their hunting tartan, but I'll admit that I wanted something a little more exotic.) I chose the Murray of Atholl tartan... while I don't have any known family connections to the Murray Clan, I am a member of the Masonic lodge in Athol, Massachusetts. The town and my lodge in particular have a long-standing relationship with Blair Atholl Scotland and the Dukes of Atholl, and I thought it would be nice to have a kilt commemorating all of that.

I have had plenty of people ask me what tartan I'm wearing. I'm always prepared to launch into the above explanation if I were questioned about my affiliation with the Murrays, but it has never once gone further than "What tartan is that?" "Murray of Atholl." "Oh!" - in other words, outside of a kilt-obsessed forum like this, or a context like a highland games, people are just making small-talk.

[Wil]

***

MacFarlane is a fine sett indeed, and with all of the colour schemes out there, I think that's the way to go. It's the way I would go...just saying.

Cheers,

WOW! You know I never knew asking what I thought was a simple question would turn into 3 pages of great conversation over the kilt/clan issue's and a funny dream I had about it last night too.
I can only say that my cousin in Aberdeen did call this morning and we got all cought up on the issue as well. I understand Caol & John Wayne what you both are saying and I agree with you. I am not going to pick up the nicely made second hand kilt in another's tartan for the sake of a few dollars.
I will call up someone today and have a MacFarlane Mouring Tartan kilt commissioned. John Wayne put it best when he mentioned "loyalty," loyalty to the clan, that was all I needed to hear. I do not need WWIII with anyone over the fact that I could be wearing his/her tartan and not part of his/her clan nor do I want to misrepresent my family and clan over this. The tartan goes back in your history and ties you in with people that your share family with. No need to piss anyone off, it is more important to me to teach my kids why we wear it and why you wear yours.
But most of all why we are proud to. Thank You John Wayne and Thank You Caol....

[Wil]

Big, huge, enormous ***.

It pretty much comes down to this:

• Until such time as the sale of all tartan is governed by a single central authority who will only mete it out after irrefutable genetic or genealogical proof that you belong to a particular clan, you can purchase and wear whatever tartan you please.
• Traditionally, however, one would wear a tartan with which they have a family connection, or absent a family connection then they would wear a "universal" tartan.
• Some people will heartily encourage you to wear whatever tartan you like for whatever reason you like.
• Some people will take offense (ranging from mild indignation to outright castigation) if they learn you're wearing another family's tartan with no affiliation.
• Most people won't even notice or ask about your tartan - or if they do it's small talk and they'll drop the subject once you tell them.
• If you're fine with all that, then go for it.
• If you're not fine with it, stick with your family tartan (or a universal one if you don't have a Scottish connection.)

There is no single, simple, universally agreed-upon answer to the question; it can be (and has been) asked 1000 times on this forum and will never result in consensus, so it's ultimately going to be up to the individual kilt wearer.

When I set out to make my first 8 yard wool kilt, I purchased my tartan from Marton Mills because I was on a budget, and their 16oz wool is quite affordable when compared to Lochcarron or D.C. Dalgliesh. They don't weave my family tartan. (Well, technically I could have gone with Black Watch, which Clan Munro wears as their hunting tartan, but I'll admit that I wanted something a little more exotic.) I chose the Murray of Atholl tartan... while I don't have any known family connections to the Murray Clan, I am a member of the Masonic lodge in Athol, Massachusetts. The town and my lodge in particular have a long-standing relationship with Blair Atholl Scotland and the Dukes of Atholl, and I thought it would be nice to have a kilt commemorating all of that.

I have had plenty of people ask me what tartan I'm wearing. I'm always prepared to launch into the above explanation if I were questioned about my affiliation with the Murrays, but it has never once gone further than "What tartan is that?" "Murray of Atholl." "Oh!" - in other words, outside of a kilt-obsessed forum like this, or a context like a highland games, people are just making small-talk.

Thanks for the great feed back. I have desided to stick with the family tartan and teach my kiddos to do the same and to wear it with pride. But mostly why we wear it and why we should be proud of it. I understand that some are like, "whatever floats your boat" and others are like, "your going to hell in a hand basket." I get it, I do not say that I fall into either one of those categories but I will be able to teach my kids why I think we should wear the family's tartan (MacFarland) and not the other's.....
Thanks a million!

[RockyR]

Big, huge, enormous ***.

It pretty much comes down to this:

• Until such time as the sale of all tartan is governed by a single central authority who will only mete it out after irrefutable genetic or genealogical proof that you belong to a particular clan, you can purchase and wear whatever tartan you please.
• Traditionally, however, one would wear a tartan with which they have a family connection, or absent a family connection then they would wear a "universal" tartan.
• Some people will heartily encourage you to wear whatever tartan you like for whatever reason you like.
• Some people will take offense (ranging from mild indignation to outright castigation) if they learn you're wearing another family's tartan with no affiliation.
• Most people won't even notice or ask about your tartan - or if they do it's small talk and they'll drop the subject once you tell them.
• If you're fine with all that, then go for it.
• If you're not fine with it, stick with your family tartan (or a universal one if you don't have a Scottish connection.)

There is no single, simple, universally agreed-upon answer to the question; it can be (and has been) asked 1000 times on this forum and will never result in consensus, so it's ultimately going to be up to the individual kilt wearer.

When I set out to make my first 8 yard wool kilt, I purchased my tartan from Marton Mills because I was on a budget, and their 16oz wool is quite affordable when compared to Lochcarron or D.C. Dalgliesh. They don't weave my family tartan. (Well, technically I could have gone with Black Watch, which Clan Munro wears as their hunting tartan, but I'll admit that I wanted something a little more exotic.) I chose the Murray of Atholl tartan... while I don't have any known family connections to the Murray Clan, I am a member of the Masonic lodge in Athol, Massachusetts. The town and my lodge in particular have a long-standing relationship with Blair Atholl Scotland and the Dukes of Atholl, and I thought it would be nice to have a kilt commemorating all of that.

I have had plenty of people ask me what tartan I'm wearing. I'm always prepared to launch into the above explanation if I were questioned about my affiliation with the Murrays, but it has never once gone further than "What tartan is that?" "Murray of Atholl." "Oh!" - in other words, outside of a kilt-obsessed forum like this, or a context like a highland games, people are just making small-talk.

VERY well summed up.

ASIDE: BTW, did you know that the Murray of Atholl tartan ALSO doubles as the Atholl District tartan (it has 2 names)?

To further complicate matters (and to beat the dead horse into "horsepaste" as Kelly and I call it), how did the clan tartans originate? [OVERSIMPLIFIED COMMENT COMING] Wasn't it with the weaving of a specific pattern by a specific mill in a region, where the clan (who presumably lived in that region) would purchase it to match each other? Wasn't that just someone picking a tartan "based on colors they liked"?

I fully recognize the now longstanding history of certain clan tartans and that they have been officially adopted by chiefs of certain clans, but the origins of how it came to be that a certain clan has a certain tartan was most likely much more akin to "I like the green and blue one with red lines... Please tell my cousins and brothers that this is the one the MacDonalds should use", so the mill called it "MacDonald". That is an example and I am absolutely NOT saying that's 100% accurate for the MacDonald tartan, but am using it as an example in principle.

Another large 'origin' of clan tartans is the disreputable Sobieski Stuarts who wrote a book (titled Vestiarium Scoticum in 1842) which described and / or showed pictures of dozens of clan tartans they created themselves. After the book had come out, it was been widely discredited as being "made up", but MANY of those tartans they created HAVE become defacto and / or official clan tartans.

Again, I recognize the current "state of affairs" when it comes to tartans and the strong feelings that many clansmen and women have for their tartan. All I am pointing out is that at SOME point, it WAS a decision of "oh, I like that one" or some such thing that started many clan tartans. In reality, the meaning behind tartans / colors (blue for the sky, green for the hills, etc) didn't start until the Nova Scotia tartan was designed in 1953.

http://tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanD....aspx?ref=3202

[Jock Scot]

WOW! You know I never knew asking what I thought was a simple question would turn into 3 pages of great conversation over the kilt/clan issue's and a funny dream I had about it last night too.
I can only say that my cousin in Aberdeen did call this morning and we got all cought up on the issue as well. I understand Caol & John Wayne what you both are saying and I agree with you. I am not going to pick up the nicely made second hand kilt in another's tartan for the sake of a few dollars.
I will call up someone today and have a MacFarlane Mouring Tartan kilt commissioned. John Wayne put it best when he mentioned "loyalty," loyalty to the clan, that was all I needed to hear. I do not need WWIII with anyone over the fact that I could be wearing his/her tartan and not part of his/her clan nor do I want to misrepresent my family and clan over this. The tartan goes back in your history and ties you in with people that your share family with. No need to piss anyone off, it is more important to me to teach my kids why we wear it and why you wear yours.
But most of all why we are proud to. Thank You John Wayne and Thank You Caol....

Wil. Do you mean me? Jock Scot? The signature at the bottom of my posts is a quote and credit given to the chap who said it----- John Wayne.

[Wil]

Wil. Do you mean me? Jock Scot? The signature at the bottom of my posts is a quote and credit given to the chap who said it----- John Wayne.

Yes I mean Jock Scot, I was in a hurry this morning when I tped it out. I had just got into the office and had yet to get a cup of coffee.....

[Jock Scot]

Ah yes the coffee fix, just what would we do without that?