Scotland's Jews

[haukehaien]

Like my post above shows, Yacov, Iacobos, Jacobus... even Jacques, Giacomo or Iago...all follow a clear pattern which corresponds to similar letters. Hebrew and Greek have no "J" sound but Latin doesn't typically start names with "Y" hence "Jacobus". Even Iago is similar to Yacov given that it's not much of a shift from "c" to "g". V and B, I and Y, I and J, I and Y are all related letters and sounds. These are often used to approximate a sound when the language doesn't have an exact match. When we get to "James" the middle letter becomes an "m" and it becomes a one syllable name. While there is a Hebrew letter "Mem" it is not used in the original name, and English/Scots has two perfectly good letters with which they could render the sound of the Hebrew letter "Kuf", namely "c" or "k". This is of course evidenced clearly by the similarity between the Old Testament Biblical figure of "Jacob", and his original Hebrew name "Yacov".

While Yacov is transliterated as Jacob in the Old Testament English, it is rendered at James in the New Testament. Similarly the Name Yeshua (alt Yoheshua) is rended at Joshua in the Old Testament but as "Jesus" in the New.

My guess would be that since the Old Testament transliterations are much closer to the original names, perhaps there was a deliberate attempt to make New Testament characters seem less Jewish by drastically changing their names. I don't have a source for this.

"James" is English variation of Iacomus, which is a Late Latin dialect variant of Iacobus, probably created first by nasalizing the "o" and getting "Iacombus", and then gradual dropping of the b in the "mb" combination. In the Greek New Testament, the name is still given as "Iakobos", the standard Greek form of Ya'acov. Later translations use "James", after the name had become common.

[Nathan]

"James" is English variation of Iacomus, which is a Late Latin dialect variant of Iacobus, probably created first by nasalizing the "o" and getting "Iacombus", and then gradual dropping of the b in the "mb" combination. In the Greek New Testament, the name is still given as "Iakobos", the standard Greek form of Ya'acov. Later translations use "James", after the name had become common.

I read that on wikipedia too... sounds reasonable enough I suppose, but theological scholars are usually known for their attention to detail...

[Nathan]

Getting back to the OP, my understanding is that Scottish Jews had a tendency to wear a regional or generic tartan prior to the development of the Jewish Tartan by a Scottish born, Chabad Lubovich Rabbi. The tartan has proved quite popular and they sell kosher kilts, tartan kippahs, as well as Talits (prayer shawls) with the tartan on the neck band and on the corner tzitzit reenforcements. Most kilts are kosher, but orthodox jews are forbidden to wear linen and wool blends so the lining etc.. is certified linen free.

[haukehaien]

I read that on wikipedia too... sounds reasonable enough I suppose, but theological scholars are usually known for their attention to detail...

Wikipedia is citing the Online Etymological Dictionary - but I found it in the OED. There's not a better tool for English word origins. As far as the theological scholars' attention to detail, we're talking about a timeframe when Latin was completing its mutation/fragmentation into French/Spanish/Portuguese and so on (all of which were also fractured regionally) , and when spelling was whatever the scholar in question thought looked good at the moment. Small changes like Iakobos=>Iakobus=>Iakombus=>Iakomus were probably hardly noticeable.

[Nathan]

Wikipedia is citing the Online Etymological Dictionary - but I found it in the OED. There's not a better tool for English word origins. As far as the theological scholars' attention to detail, we're talking about a timeframe when Latin was completing its mutation/fragmentation into French/Spanish/Portuguese and so on (all of which were also fractured regionally) , and when spelling was whatever the scholar in question thought looked good at the moment. Small changes like Iakobos=>Iakobus=>Iakombus=>Iakomus were probably hardly noticeable.

i'll check out the OED, sounds like a great resource. Thanks!

Still, any idea why the Old and New Testament persons with the same Hebrew names are rendered differently?

[JonathanB]

Still, any idea why the Old and New Testament persons with the same Hebrew names are rendered differently?

Because the Old Testament is written in Hebrew and the New Testament is written in koine Greek.

The demotic speach of Jesus and his disciples was not Hebrew but Aramaic.

(PS When I did a course on Religious Studies some twenty years ago, we were told that Old Testament was the specifically Christian term, like Before Christ. The neutral terms would be the Hebrew Scriptures and Before Christian Era.)

[Nathan]

Because the Old Testament is written in Hebrew and the New Testament is written in koine Greek.

Of course! But I thought the original translations of the Hebrew scriptures into English came from the Septuagint which was already also Greek. In any case, if one translated the New Testament which had a Greek rendering of the names into English, and translated the Hebrew Scriptures from the original Hebrew, this would indeed account for the difference.

The demotic speach of Jesus and his disciples was not Hebrew but Aramaic.

True, but the Judeans had a very good facility in "Lashon Kodesh" or the "Holy Language" at the time as the Temple was still standing and all religious services were (and are still) conducted in Hebrew. Torah learning was also conducted in Hebrew. Not only that, but Aramaic is a very close cousin to Hebrew. They share an alphabet and a lot of vocabulary. I did mention Aramaic in an earlier post, but was referring to Hebrew names because, the Jews of the day didn't change their naming conventions with the Aramaic vernacular.

(PS When I did a course on Religious Studies some twenty years ago, we were told that Old Testament was the specifically Christian term, like Before Christ. The neutral terms would be the Hebrew Scriptures and Before Christian Era.)

Indeed that's the neutral term and kudos to your religious studies prof for using that inclusive language. However, when referring specifically to the scriptures as used by Christian translators into English, I think 'Old Testament' is appropriate as this is the language they use. When referring to the Hebrew Scriptures as used by Jews, it is typical to use the term Tanakh (Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim). When one refers to the Tanakh, it is also clear that they are referring to the Masoretic Hebrew text rather than the Septuagint. I do agree that the term "Old Testament" is a very loaded term and probably never should have been coined.

I wonder if Joseph's coat of many colours was Tartan...

[McClef]

That would be the ultimate tartan design challenge!

It was red and yellow and green and brown
And scarlet and black and ochre and peach
And ruby and olive and violet and fawn
And lilac and gold and chocolate and mauve
And cream and crimson and silver and rose
And azure and lemon and russet and grey
And purple and white and pink and orange
And red and yellow and green and brown and
Scarlet and black and ochre and peach
And ruby and olive and violet and fawn
And lilac and gold and chocolate and mauve
And cream and crimson and silver and rose
And azure and lemon and russet and grey
And purple and white and pink and orange
And blue

[JonathanB]

Alas, Nathan, the current translation of Genesis in the Revised Standard Version says Joseph's coat was with long sleeves! They'd be translating the Hebrew. Shame.

The King James version translated the OT (sic) from the Hebrew, except for those books only found in the Septuagint. Those additional books aren't very important in themselves but at times a big shibboleth between Catholics and Protestants.

[Rob, ClanMacMillan, NM]

That would be the ultimate tartan design challenge!

It was red and yellow and green and brown
And scarlet and black and ochre and peach
And ruby and olive and violet and fawn
And lilac and gold and chocolate and mauve
And cream and crimson and silver and rose
And azure and lemon and russet and grey
And purple and white and pink and orange
And red and yellow and green and brown and
Scarlet and black and ochre and peach
And ruby and olive and violet and fawn
And lilac and gold and chocolate and mauve
And cream and crimson and silver and rose
And azure and lemon and russet and grey
And purple and white and pink and orange
And blue

A challenge yes, but do-able if we don't worry about colour variations too much...
We could take red, scarlet, ruby, rose, & crimson and make them all the same shade... After combining the other shades, I think we could get it down to 6-8 actual colours -- anyone up for the challenge?

Rob.