Medieval Knight Found Under Parking Lot in Scotland

[Jock Scot]

Jock, absolutely no taking to task. . There are obviously many well funded, well meaning, uninformed US folk who get
excited or even maudlin in the face of things they haven't previously bothered to examine, but many here hold more
information and longer perspectives. Some of us have extensive information going back more than 500 years. Some, not so much. This is why many on this forum speak of Scottish and Irish antecedents. In our families, they are still respected and still influence how things are done. Twice that long ago our Norman lines were not yet in Scotland. They are not all known by name to all of us, but some are to some of us. I know I know at least some, and would hazard a guess you do as well. Known or unknown, the system and changes they brought to Scotland affect all Scots every day, whether they are historically informed or not. That system resulted in the migration of many to these shores, so it affects all here everyday. Many faded into the mists of time, mostly unimportant, some widely known. All part of the mix. Proud natural American, not a Scot, but definitely "Scot-ish".

No "task" taken.

I will try to avoid the "Scottish" ancestry slant that you talk about other than to say that is not the direction that I was coming from in my post here. I had thought that I had made that clear and I am sorry if I did not do so.

It was the physical aspects that I had in mind such as "artifacts", buildings, and everyday items that we are surrounded with and take little notice of because we are so familiar with them. I give you examples, Stonehenge is a world renowned ancient monument and there are several other henges dotted about the UK so the residents are not unused to things of several thousand years of age. Iron age forts are not unusual, Cathedrals at around a 1000 years old are common, Scotland has, I think over 3000 castles, most go back more than several centuries. Some of our tartan and tweed that we here enthuse about here is made on looms that are over 100 years old, I eat my meals with cutlery that was made just after Napoleon was defeated, and all this is not just a UK thing. So "OLD" to the "old world" is just not the issue that the "new world" make of it.

[JonathanB]

Well, possibly Jock. On the other hand I strongly suspect that even in London, the population can go through a whole day without seeing a single building that pre-dates American Independence. Even if they do, they probably don't realise how old they are. As I said, the White House pre-dates Buckingham Palace.

[Jock Scot]

Well, possibly Jock. On the other hand I strongly suspect that even in London, the population can go through a whole day without seeing a single building that pre-dates American Independence. Even if they do, they probably don't realise how old they are. As I said, the White House pre-dates Buckingham Palace.

That it does, but I think you can agree that we in Europe are surrounded with aged man made this and thats, large and small, impressive and mundane, ranging from thousands to just a hundred years old. Whether we consciously notice them is another matter entirely!

[JonathanB]

Well, yes, but I'm trying not to sound superior.

[tripleblessed]

Having been fortunate enough to visit some of those castles, and stand in some of those cathedrals, I absolutely understand (well, hopefully) and agree on that aspect. Not much on this side standing that would fit in the same conversation.

Though folk were here, a different attitude and culture led to different construction not so durable. Near Harold
Cannon, folk were living 10 or 11 thousand years ago, but not much left. Folk living in Upper Peninsula Michigan
were selling copper to the Egyptians long enough ago that is was found in pyramids sealed up 5,000 or so years ago.
The pyramids still stand, but nothing here to show for it.

For further perspective, I know a man, son of an Inuit shaman, psychologist, and practitioner of the ancient healing arts,
who speaks of periodically visiting with an elder in Greenland who lives in a stone house continuously occupied for
12,000 years. Haven't been yet invited to go with.

Most don't know, nor would they care. For most, Jock, your point is very well taken.

[sailortats]

[QUOTE=tripleblessed;1156389]Folk living in Upper Peninsula Michigan
were selling copper to the Egyptians long enough ago that is was found in pyramids sealed up 5,000 or so years ago.

QUOTE]

Where did you ever hear this? I have studied Ancient Egypt for many years and have never heard anything like this.

[artificer]

[QUOTE=sailortats;1156420]

Folk living in Upper Peninsula Michigan
were selling copper to the Egyptians long enough ago that is was found in pyramids sealed up 5,000 or so years ago.

QUOTE]

Where did you ever hear this? I have studied Ancient Egypt for many years and have never heard anything like this.

Here's a bit on the Copper Cultures of the Upper Great Lakes,
but I'm fairly certain the "old world shipping" theory was largely discredited at this point.

ith:

[sydnie7]

[QUOTE=artificer;1156432]

Here's a bit on the Copper Cultures of the Upper Great Lakes,
but I'm fairly certain the "old world shipping" theory was largely discredited at this point.

ith:

Oh, it's still being bandied about. Ran across it on cable TV within the last month or so, when I sampled an episode of "America Unearthed." Typical pastiche of dubious "science" and wild conjecture on all the usual suspect topics. . .

But back to the knight (and BTW love Artificer's pun a few posts back!), copper, and the covering-up of ancient stuff. One of our favorite UK sites is the Great Orme Copper Mine in northern Wales. Locals thought it was Victorian-era and were about to pave it over for parking -- do I sense a trend here? -- when it turned out to be Bronze Age. Well worth a stop if you're in the vicinity!

[TheOfficialBren]

Folk living in Upper Peninsula Michigan
were selling copper to the Egyptians long enough ago that is was found in pyramids sealed up 5,000 or so years ago.
The pyramids still stand, but nothing here to show for it.

For further perspective, I know a man, son of an Inuit shaman, psychologist, and practitioner of the ancient healing arts,
who speaks of periodically visiting with an elder in Greenland who lives in a stone house continuously occupied for
12,000 years. Haven't been yet invited to go with.

- Sounds like dubious History Channel pseudo-intellectual clap-trap right up there with Bigfoot and Nessie. No credible archaeologist would agree with this long-discredited supposition.

- As for the 12,000-year-old hut, that would be a bit of a stretch to assume that it has been continuously inhabited. Not likely but not impossible. I can't think of any other neolithic structures that are still used on a continual basis in the modern world.
We are talking about a structure that was supposed to have been built 7,000 years BREFORE the invention of the written word (which never really caught on among the Northern First Nations peoples). Sounds like a romantic notion no different than the belief in King Arthur or any other cultural myth. Every culture has them...even the Native American peoples (I say that as a man who is partly descended from First Nations peoples in additin to my British heritage).

We must always be critical of romantic notions. Yhey "feel good" but cloud our understanding.

Case-in-point (Scots, please forgive me): William Wallace...brigand or hero? Murderer or martyr? Leader or puppet? Man or myth? Myths inspire people but they can be detrimental, too.

My apologies if I stepped on any toes. I said all of that with all due courtesy intended.




DK: Australia is HUGE!!! It is one massive, gorgeous country. Parts of it remind me of the US but it certainly is its own place.

[chewse]

Whereas in Great Britain and other older civilizations there exists the possibly of uncovering ancient artifacts of historical significance with each new excavation, we in the US just hope to someday accidently put a shovel in the ground and hit the remains of the infamous union boss, Jimmy Hoffa. After all, there have been prior attempts to unearth his body underneath a homeowner’s driveway in Detroit, under the end zone at Giants Stadium, and even within the crumpled steel of a crushed car in a junk yard.