New Tank!! Dewar tartan.

[Father Bill]

Aye, 'tis indeed! I like the pleats whatever the h___ you want to call them!

Bill+

[creagdhubh]

Aye, 'tis indeed! I like the pleats whatever the h___ you want to call them!

Bill+

Hahahaha! Well said.

[Domehead]

I particularly enjoy image #1. One thing about box-pleating, not better - just different than other pleating - is the reveal. I like how the yellow stripe is hinted at from behind the boxes. When one walks away with that much fabric, the flash of the reveal is very cool.

I enjoy the graceful motion of the contemporary Knife-pleated "8-yd"...or less perhaps.
I enjoy the technique, skill & artistry of the Kingussie-pleated "?-yd"...whatever.
I enjoy the subtle reveal & hidden detail in the Box-pleated / Double Box-pleated "Military" style...whatever.
I enjoy the historical rejuvination & simplicity of the Box-pleated "4-yd"...or more perhaps.

However, when one makes that decision, the aesthetic is a factor. It can't be helped.

[TheOfficialBren]

What in Hades haunches are "barrell pleats?" I have also heard the term "rolled pleats."

Lastly, I think that the confusion is that the so-called "military box pleats" ARE a bit different from the so-called "historical box pleats." They look like knife pleats which have been folded over to form a box pleat. I have ONLY seen this pleating style employed with higher-yardage box pleated kilts (probably to deal with more material...makes sense to me) and so, perhaps perception on the part of the consumer versus the perception from the kiltbuilder's vantage are at the crux of the matter.

I trust that Matt knows his stuff. In the end, they both boil down to being box pleats.

Hoobity poobity.

[Domehead]

Deleted

[M. A. C. Newsome]

What in Hades haunches are "barrell pleats?" I have also heard the term "rolled pleats."

Good question. As far as I know, barrel pleats and rolled pleats are one and the same. Sometimes also called piped pleats or cane pleats. I have only ever seen this style in a few older military kilts and have never tried to make one, so I'll just let Bob Martin speak for himself. This is from pg. 40 of his book.

Barrel Pleat -- a military term. Also termed piped pleat or cane pleat. This pleat when first sewn looks like a knife pleat. The pleats are then reversed, laid the opposite direction on the inside, and tacked down, thus forming on the outside a twist where the pleat falls free. The pleats thus formed are soft tubes remaining unpressed. To get ready for parade or inspection, the soldier would run a "cane" up each pleat and, with a hot watered brush, brush out the flattened pleats, forming once again the "barrel" appearance.

He includes a couple of photos of a Black Watch tartan regimental kilt pleated this way. To my eye, it looks rather similar to what folks call a military box pleat, except that the pleats run in the opposite direction, and are completely unpressed. I have a feeling this sort of kilt would look really sloppy if it was not kept up, but would look rather nifty when properly maintained, as Bob describes.

[OC Richard]

green 80's Canadian Patrol Jacket.

I'm interested in that jacket. I can't see, from the photos, what it's like.

In the British Army "Patrol Dress" or "Blue Patrols" have long been worn by officers. In the kilted regiments Blue Patrols are worn with trews. They are shown excellently in the movie Tunes of Glory. Here in the Officers' Mess half the officers are wearing Blue Patrols with trews, half are wearing No2 Dress jackets with kilts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBmBA_W-NpY

Normally you don't see the Blue Patrol jacket worn with kilts, here it is, a piper who also happens to have suitable rank (he's a Captain)



Here are Canadian troops wearing a kilt-adapted version of the jacket that's called "Class A's" in the US Army, quite different from Patrol Dress (Patrol Dress has a stand collar, Class A's an open collar with lapels)



I have seen Canadian pipe bands wearing Patrol Dress, green for the pipers and red for the drummers.

[AJBryant]

Yes, those are buttons on the kilt. Many early nineteenth century kilts I have seen have had buttons sewn on at the waist for wearing with braces (suspenders). I do not know, however, if the white straps showing at the top of the photo are braces. I doubt it. But yes, braces would have been worn with this kilt.

One feature of many of these early kilts is that there is no tapering at all from waist to hips. In other words, there is no shaping to the kilt, so they don't fit quite as well as we are perhaps used to. Braces would be a welcome aid in keeping the kilt up and in place, and were commonly worn beneath a waistcoat or jacket.

Matt, you are just a darned font of information.

Thanks for this. That's something I never knew, and never would have thought of.

All I can say is... I can't *wait* until I'm finished with my diet (only about 180 lbs to go!) 'cause I want to order one of your womdidgeously impressive kilts.

Thanks again!

Tony

[OC Richard]

He includes a couple of photos of a Black Watch tartan regimental kilt pleated this way.

I've seen more vintage photos of the Highland regiments of Scotland than most people, and I can't recall ever seeing such a thing actually being worn. What I have seen are old boxpleated military kilts which haven't been pressed in ages where the pleats have lost their edges and have got a bit rounded. Pray tell which regiment(s), and what time period, are supposed to have used this practice of pressing the pleats in barrels? "Black Watch tartan regimental kilt" is very strange because of course the kilts of The Black Watch are knifepleated. If he means a military boxpleated kilt in Sutherland tartan, as worn by the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, I have handled and examined a large number of these over the last 30 years, and have seen hundreds of photos of soldiers wearing them, and seen dozens of photos of vintage ones being sold on Ebay etc and when worn and maintained in the regiment the pleats are pressed flat.

[creagdhubh]

I'm interested in that jacket. I can't see, from the photos, what it's like.

In the British Army "Patrol Dress" or "Blue Patrols" have long been worn by officers. In the kilted regiments Blue Patrols are worn with trews. They are shown excellently in the movie Tunes of Glory. Here in the Officers' Mess half the officers are wearing Blue Patrols with trews, half are wearing No2 Dress jackets with kilts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBmBA_W-NpY

Normally you don't see the Blue Patrol jacket worn with kilts, here it is, a piper who also happens to have suitable rank (he's a Captain)

Yep, that's Major Gavin-Neill MacLeod Stoddart, MBE, BEM. He is now retired from the Army and is a Senior Instructor at the National Piping Centre in Glasgow. He is also a regular adjudicator of senior piping events in Scoltand and travels around the world to teach and judge. I met him once whilst attending the Argyllshire Gathering and the Northern Meeting.