"Dressing down a culture"

**Father Bill** · 22nd May 13, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by kiltedrennie

I'll give it a go...
A "culture" makes the stuff that goes into my pint.
A "counter" is where I put my empty pint to be refilled.

Love it!

int:

**creagdhubh** · 22nd May 13, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

Love it!

int:

Cheers to that!

**adempsey10** · 22nd May 13, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by kiltedrennie

+

This reminds me of discussions we had in my Philosophy 101 course years ago. Quite metaphysical when you get down to it. Is an absolute knowledge of concepts such as "beauty" even possible? I think the old adage applies here - it's in the eyes/mind of the beholder.

That's where I was going with that. The sooner we realize that there is no absolute truth, especially when it comes to matters of opinion about fashion, the sooner we can stop judging each other and marginalizing each because of something as silly as dress. Take this forum, for example, we connect with people here and share friendly dialogues with other people whom, in real life, we might brush off because we have prejudged each other based on our clothing choice. A fifty something priest and Mohawked punk will cross the street to avoid each other in real life. On here, where all things are equal, we're judged solely on the quality and respectfulness of our posts. We get to have conversations with people we might never otherwise choose to associate with. It's a beautiful thing.

**David Thorpe** · 22nd May 13, 07:31 AM

Let's get down to brass tacks, shall we?
The kilt is the central and essential element of traditional Highland dress. This is not a belief, but a fact.
There is nothing "counter-cultural" about traditional Highland dress - another fact. Traditional Highland dress is conservative, sharp, well-defined and fully entrenched in a specific culture.
Wearing the kilt as a component of any other mode of dress, counter-cultural or otherwise, takes it out of its traditional role and makes it something else - NOT traditional Highland dress.
I find ironic the position of those who want to take the kilt somewhere else while insisting on its ties to the Highlands and tradition. IMHO, you can't have it both ways.
Anyone is of course free to wear anything within legal bounds, including a kilt or a MUG. But make no mistake about the existence of that undeniable, if sometimes slightly fuzzy, line between TCHD and everything else. Trying to erase it only etches it deeper.

**moggi1964** · 22nd May 13, 07:48 AM

To be fair, if we go back to its roots, being worn by ordinary men living in small houses they shared with their cattle we might say that the shift to "conservative, sharp, well-defined.." is one representation and not the only one.

**artificer** · 22nd May 13, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by moggi1964

To be fair, if we go back to its roots, being worn by ordinary men living in small houses they shared with their cattle we might say that the shift to "conservative, sharp, well-defined.." is one representation and not the only one.

You beat me to the punch.

A particularly argumentative person MIGHT just say that today's TCHD is based primarily on the Victorian romantic (and revisionist) view of the Highlands-
with, as moggi pointed out, lots less dirt, fewer nettles, and more starched white collars and nice new jackets.

ith:

**Carlo** · 22nd May 13, 08:10 AM

I agree that:

Originally Posted by David Thorpe

The kilt is the central and essential element of traditional Highland dress. This is not a belief, but a fact.

But, if the kilt is Highland dress, that makes it counter-cultural dress (almost) everywhere else.
I can wear a kilt as traditional as I want and it will be counter-cultural to any culture around me.
Oh and I can look as conservative, sharp... as I want, it is not how I will be seen.

By the way the same goes with Swiss national dress. You will be visible and counter what people expect in 99.9% of occassions.

**Father Bill** · 22nd May 13, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by adempsey10

That's where I was going with that. The sooner we realize that there is no absolute truth, especially when it comes to matters of opinion about fashion, the sooner we can stop judging each other and marginalizing each because of something as silly as dress. Take this forum, for example, we connect with people here and share friendly dialogues with other people whom, in real life, we might brush off because we have prejudged each other based on our clothing choice. A fifty something priest and Mohawked punk will cross the street to avoid each other in real life. On here, where all things are equal, we're judged solely on the quality and respectfulness of our posts. We get to have conversations with people we might never otherwise choose to associate with. It's a beautiful thing.

I think you may be trying to condemn casual assumptions on the part of many. I'm a 60 year old plus priest. I wish I had copies of the pictures of myself on the main street visiting with the druggies and hookers there. Yes, one of them had a Mohawk, and in the picture which his buddy has (I would assume) the two of us were standing with big grins and our arms around each other's shoulders.

Yes, we make judgements. We have mutually made a similar judgement that kilts are kool. That's a judgement. I've made a judgement that I'm willing to give my time to a number of causes which cost me time, money, and nuisance value. I'm sure you've made some similar judgements.

Judgements are the basis of decisions. They are not intrinsically a bad thing. I judge it unwise and unacceptable to drive drunk. I judge it inappropriate to go naked to a black-tie dinner. What we're dealing with here is a decision about which judgements are wiser than others, not whether or not to make judgements.

Incidentally, I really liked the guy with the Mohawk.

**aonghas** · 22nd May 13, 09:16 AM

I like you also Father Bill

but it was probably not me there, maybe I will have the honour one day.

**David Thorpe** · 22nd May 13, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by artificer

You beat me to the punch.

A particularly argumentative person MIGHT just say that today's TCHD is based primarily on the Victorian romantic (and revisionist) view of the Highlands-
with, as moggi pointed out, lots less dirt, fewer nettles, and more starched white collars and nice new jackets.

ith:

I did not mean to imply that TCHD is totally static. It does indeed change, albeit at a geologic pace, especially when compared to the whims and fancies of Western haute coture in general. And you are quite correct to point out that Queen Victoria had a major influence - one that is still very much a potent force.