New Kilt/Dilemma - Part 2

**kilted scholar** · 24th June 13, 12:34 PM

Some factors to bear in mind are the following

The replies from the Palace are certainly from some official or other, not directly from a senior member of the Royal family.
The replies in themselves are inaccurate as the information provided was only provisional.
There is no legal authority that has jurisdiction over tartan as there is in heraldry.
Even in the case of the Balmoral tartan, no one will be prosecuted for wearing it - or using it as a tablecloth.
The tartan has been authoritatively identified here on this forum
The powers of the Monarch are strictly limited; we are not living in a feudal society.
The Royal family very rarely take legal action - only very recently and in matters of major concern.
All functions exercised by the Monarch are exercised in and through Parliament; the prerogative powers are now minimal and can be exercised very rarely and only in the case of a national emergency such as in the formation of the National Government in 1931.
The Royal family is subsidised by the taxpayer (by you).
You have bought the kilt on the open market; it is yours and you have a complete right to do what you will with it, including wearing it.
A good case can be made out that the official(s) who wrote were acting beyond their powers, and certainly out of ignorance as the exact identity of the tartan was at that point not known.

**adempsey10** · 24th June 13, 01:13 PM

I would wear it anyway. It might be sacred to some, but that doesnt make it universally sacred. Some might take it as disrespect and that is their right to judge you for it. Its also up to you to decide whether you care about their judgement on you. Its really just a bunch of coloured lines on fabric, for anyone to be upset over it is irrational.

**thecompaqguy** · 24th June 13, 02:50 PM

Just wear it

**Jock Scot** · 24th June 13, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by adempsey10

I would wear it anyway. It might be sacred to some, but that doesnt make it universally sacred. Some might take it as disrespect and that is their right to judge you for it. Its also up to you to decide whether you care about their judgement on you. Its really just a bunch of coloured lines on fabric, for anyone to be upset over it is irrational.

I suppose its just as irrational that uncountable millions have died over the ages due to their respective national flags and causes? After all a flag is made up of colours and lines on fabric. Some tartans, Cameron, Seaforth, Gordon, Black Watch, to name four, are no different to a flag to some people, so whilst your opinion is yours , others may well disagree with you and disagree quite strongly.

**TheOfficialBren** · 25th June 13, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I suppose its just as irrational that uncountable millions have died over the ages due to their respective national flags and causes? After all a flag is made up of colours and lines on fabric. Some tartans, Cameron, Seaforth, Gordon, Black Watch, to name four, are no different to a flag to some people, so whilst your opinion is yours , others may well disagree with you and disagree quite strongly.

A big Kyleism to that!

**adempsey10** · 25th June 13, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I suppose its just as irrational that uncountable millions have died over the ages due to their respective national flags and causes?

Yes it is, actually.

**adempsey10** · 25th June 13, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I suppose its just as irrational that uncountable millions have died over the ages due to their respective national flags and causes? After all a flag is made up of colours and lines on fabric. Some tartans, Cameron, Seaforth, Gordon, Black Watch, to name four, are no different to a flag to some people, so whilst your opinion is yours , others may well disagree with you and disagree quite strongly.

I think you may have missed the point of what I was trying to say. Allow me to attempt to make it clearer with an analogy:

The cow is sacred to those of the Hindu religion. To me, however, the cow isn't sacred, so I eat it. Would anyone accuse me of disrespecting their beliefs? Maybe. But is it wrong for me to eat beef because they think it's sacred? To them, maybe. To me, no. Who is right and who is wrong here? The answer: both and neither. Something is only meaningful for the person to whom it has meaning for. To attempt to force that meaning on everyone else, by say, telling someone they cant wear a certain tartan, is to assume that the tartan has some universal importance to all humans. It doesn't. Just because someone might be offended by him wearing that tartan, doesn't mean it is, in itself, offensive.

EDIT: I dont know much about that religion, so I could be misinterpreting their actual belief, but for the purpose of this analogy, that doesn't really matter. Let's just assume that it is the case. The logic still stands whether the premise is true or not.

**Father Bill** · 25th June 13, 06:54 AM

Well, never underestimate the power and emotional power of a symbol - graphic or living.

A flag? A tartan? The Kilt? A swastika? A cross? A smiley face? Joseph Stalin? Nelson Mandela? The Pope?

These are all symbols, and you'll note how much emotion, positive AND/OR negative each may engender in various people. Rightly or wrongly, people are indeed willing to die for a symbol, largely because of what it means to them and the meaning that is behind it.

In our mutual interest, just think how many XMarkers have striven mightily to find the connections and meanings behind a tartan or a clan, some of us without ever meeting a member of the clan either. People connect to things quickly and viscerally.

Symbols are powerful... and dangerous too. Handle with care!

**creagdhubh** · 25th June 13, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

Well, never underestimate the power and emotional power of a symbol - graphic or living.

A flag? A tartan? The Kilt? A swastika? A cross? A smiley face? Joseph Stalin? Nelson Mandela? The Pope?

These are all symbols, and you'll note how much emotion, positive AND/OR negative each may engender in various people. Rightly or wrongly, people are indeed willing to die for a symbol, largely because of what it means to them and the meaning that is behind it.

In our mutual interest, just think how many XMarkers have striven mightily to find the connections and meanings behind a tartan or a clan, some of us without ever meeting a member of the clan either. People connect to things quickly and viscerally.

Symbols are powerful... and dangerous too. Handle with care!

Well said, Father Bill.

**adempsey10** · 25th June 13, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

Well, never underestimate the power and emotional power of a symbol - graphic or living.

A flag? A tartan? The Kilt? A swastika? A cross? A smiley face? Joseph Stalin? Nelson Mandela? The Pope?

These are all symbols, and you'll note how much emotion, positive AND/OR negative each may engender in various people. Rightly or wrongly, people are indeed willing to die for a symbol, largely because of what it means to them and the meaning that is behind it.

In our mutual interest, just think how many XMarkers have striven mightily to find the connections and meanings behind a tartan or a clan, some of us without ever meeting a member of the clan either. People connect to things quickly and viscerally.

Symbols are powerful... and dangerous too. Handle with care!

Agreed, a tartan can certainly be a very meaningful symbol for someone. But we must always remember, that to someone else, it may mean nothing. It is only when we fallaciously attempt to force the meaning on other people, do we get into trouble.