Tartan Types and Purposes:

**Graham** · 21st August 04, 09:26 PM

Jimmy, I did a bit of histerical, I mean historical research on the Black Watch before buying mine from USAK.
I didn't want to associate with anything that might be unsavoury.
However, I came to the general comclusion that most if not all the clans have engaged in something unpleasant at some stage.

Even my own clan, Morrison, have had their share of blood.

So in modern times, I wear what I like based largely on colour, shallow I know, but who cares?

I agree that in some areas, a certain tartan would cause strife and wearing it would be best avoided.

What's the deal with saffron and the Republic of Eire? is it a catholic/protestant problem? 'scuse my ignorance.

**Jimmy Carbomb** · 21st August 04, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Graham

What's the deal with saffron and the Republic of Eire? is it a catholic/protestant problem? 'scuse my ignorance.

The Republic equates them with the Ulsters in the North. Basically, your question is your answer. I refuse to do the "Tague/Prod" thing, and refer to the "troubles" as North and South.

It's a shame for those of us that are in the culture since those Saffron Kilts are awesome!

As I ALWAYS say... wear what you like. Just know the tartan and the history so that you can deflect any confrontations. For the majority of those on this board, the chances of it happening are not high. Atleast, we'll have the knowledge to know any comments IF they occur.

It's always best to know WHAT you're wearing or displaying. Suppose some poor European guy walked into Gilly's in Texas, sporting a "Hello Kitty" shirt. Education be goodly.

**Jimmy Carbomb** · 21st August 04, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Graham

I did a bit of histerical, I mean historical research on the Black Watch before buying mine from USAK. I didn't want to associate with anything that might be unsavoury. However, I came to the general comclusion that most if not all the clans have engaged in something unpleasant at some stage.

Apart from the "gore factor" which can not be denied... the Black Watch is a Military Tartan. Hey, Graham can wear it with no problem at all! Anyone can wear it with no problem at all. Some with Military backgrounds might feel different... and they don't have to wear it.

The whole point of this thread is to KNOW YOUR TARTAN. It might not be YOUR clan, family, military branch, district or country... but it's actually fun to have some insight into your purchase!

If you're at a Highland Game and a Scot asks you if that's Black Watch... you can proudly say "yes". If a guy at an Irish Pub in Philadelphia (holding a broken bottle of beer) asks you if that's Black Watch... you can either run, or proudly say "I don't know. Buy you a beer?"

**seamus** · 21st August 04, 10:15 PM

please pardon my ignorance, but will someone explain the whole blackwatch/irish thing to me? and i find it interesting that royal stewart is so popular, if thats a rule.

also, is it true about the "dress" tartans being for ladies? just because i like the gordon dress (i'm of gordon descent) and was considering it for a rental for a formal dance, but is it for ladies? hmm...thanks.

**Mr. Kilt** · 21st August 04, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Carbomb

Yo Vetzky...

Nah. Not at all really. In fact, if your family is from the North, it's not a problem at all. Besides, you can wear whatever you darned well please over here!

I just wouldn't wear the Black Watch at a St. Patrick's parade, an AOH meeting, or in the Irish Republic. Maybe I should add a few Pubs in Boston and Philadelphia to that list too!

I stand corrected on my previous post...I thought it was the other way around. My family is from Northern Ireland, and we plan to take a trip there in a few years. Perhaps I will take my Black Watch kilt with me.

**Jimmy Carbomb** · 21st August 04, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by seamus

please pardon my ignorance, but will someone explain the whole blackwatch/irish thing to me? and i find it interesting that royal stewart is so popular, if thats a rule.

No problem with the Black Watch thing at all. Simply put without going TOO far into it, the Black Watch fought for the British and the Unionist insurgents to rebel the Irish Independence movements. 1916 at the GPO was just one of many incidents. Touchy subject with the Irish Republicans. Besides being a Military tartan, it's not a friendly one to Eire. As a kilt wearer, it's best to know your tartan.

As for Royal Stewart, that's often a designer's choice. Again... anyone can feel free to wear it if they choose. Just know that it DOES have a history, a tradition, and a meaning behind it. As a kilt wearer, it's best to know your tartan.

Originally Posted by seamus

also, is it true about the "dress" tartans being for ladies? just because i like the gordon dress (i'm of gordon descent) and was considering it for a rental for a formal dance, but is it for ladies? hmm...thanks.

That's a big 10-4 good buddy. Dress tartans DO NOT mean that they're formal. Dress means "dress". I've NEVER seen a man in a dress Stewart, but you'll find a TON of skirts and dresses at stores in it. You WILL, however, see guys in Dress McLeod (also known as Loud McLeod). No matter how good it looks, it's a "dress tartan"... pure and simple. Until the Registers at Lyon Court or the Tartan Registry notify everyone that it is no longer the case... then it pretty well stands. BUT... feel free to wear whatever you like. As a kilt wearer, it's best to know your tartan.

The information above is NOT my personal opinion, but is straight from the Registers at Lyon Court. Consider that the traditions are still very much alive in some areas when you decide on your kilt. NOTE: I'm currently doing a HUGE project with the tartan Registry and the Registers at Lyon Court.

**Jimmy Carbomb** · 21st August 04, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Al G.

I stand corrected on my previous post...I thought it was the other way around. My family is from Northern Ireland, and we plan to take a trip there in a few years. Perhaps I will take my Black Watch kilt with me.

Chances are that if you hit the barracks, you'll actually see an authentic Black Watch kilt on the guards. They DO still exist in the North!

Just don't drool when you see them, as they're constructed like tanks!

**Donnie** · 22nd August 04, 05:46 AM

I personally want to know the history of any tartan I wear! Thanks Jimmy. If you know a little something about the tartan you wear, conversations are much easier! Just bore Wankers who are ignorant of kilts out of their minds!

**Bill** · 22nd August 04, 06:31 AM

Thanks Jimmy for the information!

I have labored under the impression that the Black Watch was considered a "general Tartan" as well as a military one so I stand corrected on this one. I do have a Black Watch from Sport Kilt that I was considering replacing with something else in the same Tartan but now I am rethinking that move.

I Do have a very nice Black Stewart for "occasions" since that is where the family ties are. BTW speaking of "ties" (

) I own a Dress Stewart tie which goes beautifully with a black suit (but I wouldn't combine it with a Kilt).

Thanks Again!

(Side question to Hank...Does the Forum have printer friendly capabilities?)

Bill

**Graham** · 22nd August 04, 06:55 AM

If you're at a Highland Game and a Scot asks you if that's Black Watch... you can proudly say "yes". If a guy at an Irish Pub in Philadelphia (holding a broken bottle of beer) asks you if that's Black Watch... you can either run, or proudly say "I don't know. Buy you a beer?"

Hahaha! that gave me a good laff, it sounds to me like you speak from experience there Jimmy!