Apprpriate dress for ceremonial occasion

[Glen]

I have contacted my government to ask about the accoutrements, I expect they will answer the actual question I asked.

I am interested in the response, especially given the nature of our current government.

Do not take too serious those with 'old' thoughts as those are just that, from the 'old' country, and Canada is a new country, still developing. It is those in your lodge, brother, that you should seek guidance from...

[Jock Scot]

I never came here to pick a fight. I came here to ask a polite question. I have contacted my government to ask about the accoutrements, I expect they will answer the actual question I asked. If some of you wish to believe that the honour conveyed by the kilt and tartan are for Scots only, then recall your ancestors, rewrite history, leave the places you now reside, and take the traditions they exported back with you. If you cannot accept that the Scottish ways have been recognized, emulated and absorbed into new cultures and places, then the real world is not a suitable place for you to dwell. It requires a degree of malice to misunderstand and misinterpret things I previously wrote, and so I can only assume that some in here are seeking to pick a fight and exclude new comers. All right, I get the hint.

I don't believe for a second that you did come here for a fight, nor does anyone else come here for that reason either. Unfortunately you have had the misfortune to inadvertantly " stub your cigar out in a petrol can", with the inevitable results! Stick around for a while, you may learn something to your advantage.

[Father Bill]

Jock's right; there are a lot of us here who take an opportunity to get on our favourite soap boxes. It really isn't personal; Jock and I regularly cross swords - he's usually in the right, but we each have our favourite issues, and it doesn't take much for a lot of us to climb up on our hind legs and make a speech... but there's a lot to learn from personal opinions.

I find it interesting to note, in the top right corner, the location of the writer. It often gives a clue to the cultural source of the position.

Please don't take it personally; you inadvertently tripped on a favourite hornet's nest.



Bill+

[Phil]

It requires a degree of malice to misunderstand and misinterpret things I previously wrote

I believe that you wrote "but it is not longer just a Scottish national dress" in an earlier post so I see no malice or misinterpretation in accepting that this is exactly what you meant to say.
Whether or not you choose to wear a kilt to some ceremonial event in your own country is entirely a matter for you and no-one here is in any way trying to pick a fight or exclude you so please do not be so precious about this. Your assertion that the kilt is no longer just a Scottish national dress is not only incorrect, however, but is also deeply offensive to those of us born and raised in that culture. Many here previously have tried to "pooh-pooh" our claim to the kilt as a national symbol, for whatever reason, mostly I think to justify some spurious reason of theirs to legitimately wear a kilt, so if you receive a strong rebuttal then you will certainly know that you are not being picked upon.

[Liam]

If I use Canada as an example. I have the greatest of respect for Canada, I have great respect for the Canadian Armed Services past and present, I have the greatest of respect for the Canadian people past and present, I have the greatest of respect for the Canadians with a Scots heritage too and I don't think there is a Scot alive that does not recognise and respect all of that fully.

However all of the above does not make any of them Scots of today, they are Canadians.

And Jock... We are darned proud of it!

The Maple Leaf tartan (and thus a kilt or a tie or other clothing made from that tartan) is an Official symbol of Canada as is the beaver, our Flag, our Coat of Arms, our National sports of hockey and lacrosse. While tartan may have originated in Scotland, it is also very much a Canadian symbol as well.

[Jock Scot]

Liam.

Of course you are proud of being Canadian. I would expect nothing less.

[Father Bill]

I appreciate the respect Jock has expressed. Many have difficulties understanding the foundations of Canada, and Scotland is one of the firmest parts of that foundation. Note the Coat of Arms of this Dominion, and take a good hard look at the top right corner of that shield. We're proud of the Scottish basis in which Canada was built!

Arms of Canada.jpg

Now whether that makes the kilt specifically a Canadian symbol, I would demur rather strongly. On the other hand, Maple Leaf Tartan? Absolutely!

[Glen]

" stub your cigar out in a petrol can"

It is an empty gasoline can from my perspective...

[CMcG]

I am about to get my first kilt, which will be Canadian Maple Leaf. For the past many years I have been selected to represent Canada at the cenotaph on Remembrance Day.
...
My question is about the proper jacket/tie and accoutrements that I should wear with my kilt for this formal, but not "evening formal" occasion. I do have a goodly selection of tweed jackets (some dating to the 1970s) to choose from, if that is appropriate.

To answer your question, I'll add my two bits to what others have already mentioned. The kilt equivalent of a dark suit is a tweed jacket, leather sporran, and solid colour hose. Good choice on the tartan!

Given the solemnity of the occasion, I would pick a muted tweed, rather than one with bold pattern or colour. If you want to wear one of your existing tweed jackets, you will need have it converted into a kilt jacket because a regular sports coat is typically too long, as well as lacking a cutaway for the sporran. Otherwise, you'll need to buy a kilt jacket and it would be best to get the matching vest at the same time because finding a match later can be very difficult.

-----------------------

As for the questions that other people have raised in regards to the appropriateness of a kilt in this circumstance, let me try to explain. Canada is officially multicultural, which seems to perplex people who are not from this country. What this means is that Canadians preserve and promote their own heritage, as well as the heritage of their fellow Canadians.

The kilt is the national dress of Scotland. Canada does not have one, single national attire, but rather refers back to the national attires representing the heritages of Canadians. When a Canadian wants to wear national attire, they wear the clothes that symbolize their ancestry. This doesn't mean that the kilt -- or any other form of national dress -- is Canada's national attire! But if a Canadian of Scottish heritage chooses to wear national attire, then they wear the kilt.

Canada has always been a country of many nations, starting with the First Nations who were here before the Europeans arrived. Unfortunately, our early history was not so inclusive... for many years, there was a hegemonic repression of -- and systemic discrimination against -- the non-dominant groups. The Scots in Canada fared better than most because they came over to a British colony as British subjects and were white-skinned. In fact, the contribution of Scottish-Canadians is fairly well recognized in history books, as well as our national symbols like tartan and heraldry.

The legacies of colonialism have been less kind to East-Asians (especially the Chinese and the Japanese), the First Nations, Eastern Europeans, etc. Given the ethnic diversity of Canada's population and our poor history of respecting it, multiculturalism has been a positive, beneficial, and successful national policy, even if it is apparently not well understood by non-Canadians

The OP has taken the initiative to ask some government officials about the appropriateness of national attire for someone representing Canada on Remembrance Day at the cenotaph. This is not a bad move, but not really necessary. If one refers to the national policies of the Canadian Heritage branch of the Government of Canada, they actually have a section on dress for holidays, ceremonies, and commemorations. It states:

"In all circumstances, national costumes can replace ceremonial wear."

The only issues I could foresee with the OP wearing the kilt for this event would be if he is not of Scottish heritage? Or more broadly Celtic, but that is another can of worms... Or if the invitation of the event specified a dress code that for some reason specifically excludes national attire?

I'm assuming this is the cenotaph in Ottawa? If so, the OP probably won't be the only one in a kilt. The Cameron Highlanders will probably be there too. I took a trip to Ottawa earlier this year and saw a fellow wearing his kilt to work downtown. My friend who lives in Ottawa said that kilts are not unusual there, if a bit uncommon. Finally, check out these pics I took of the cenotaph and note the kilted soldier:

IMG_1650.jpgIMG_1647.jpg

[Liam]

I don't believe for a second that you did come here for a fight, nor does anyone else come here for that reason either. Unfortunately you have had the misfortune to inadvertantly " stub your cigar out in a petrol can", with the inevitable results! Stick around for a while, you may learn something to your advantage.

Actually, I am quite enjoying this thread. I apologize to Farmer Jones - the OP for using this as a bit of a soap box to give non-Canadians a sense of how we feel. I think if he (the OP) follows the advise of most of his fellow countrymen, who have posted here on the subject, then he will wear his Maple Leaf tartan kilt.